Today’s Guest

About Jo Casey

Jo Casey has over 20 years experience of working as a trainer and consultant in the corporate, public and third sectors. Her flashy clients and workplaces have included Pricewaterhouse Coopers (PWC), The NHS, BT, Toyota Motors, Peugeot Business School, The Welsh Assembly Government, The Girl Guides UK, Vets4Pets/Companion Care, several Local Government Authorities, and The Department Of Work And Pensions. But she’s also worked with many no less wonderful smaller ventures, micro businesses and SMEs.

She’s a self-confessed nerd and has taught at college and university levels and is a visiting lecturer at the University of Chester. Jo has a Masters Degree in Coaching and Organizational Development and she’s an NLP Master Practitioner, MBTI qualified professional certified Emotional Intelligence EQi 2.0 consultant.

She’s been coaching for over 15 years now – clocking up over 1000 hours of coaching experience. Basically, she carefully treads that line between being passionate and a tiny bit obsessive about what she does (obsession often wins). Jo runs accredited coach training programs and coaches people from all over the world via the power of the internet.

Listen to this episode

    

What You’ll Learn

• How to determine whether you’re experiencing fear or misalignment in your business
• How to tap into the feeling behind what’s going on
• How I worked through the murky months in my business
• My journey from doubt to clarity on my business path
• How I identified the difference between fear and misalignment in my own business
• How to move forward even when you’re not 100% clear
• The questions you need to ask yourself to get clear on whether or not you’re in alignment
• How this fits in with the Why behind your business
• How to get clear on what type of fear you’re experiencing + the questions you need to ask yourself
• The things you need to pay attention to when you’re taking action

Things We Discussed

• Cara Wilde
• Tara Mohr’s blog post on fear
• Tanya Geisler

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Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

Holly: Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 246. This is your host Holly Worton and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Jo Casey.

Today, we are going to talk about fear or misalignment? And how to tell the difference. This is a really good episode, I am really excited to put this out there, I think you are going to find this useful and interesting.

But before we get into today’s episode I wanted to mention that I was recently a guest on the Discover Your Talent podcast, now you can go to that episode and find the Show Notes and everything for that podcast, if you go to: https://www.hollyworton.com/DYT however, you may have noticed that that episode also showed up in the feed for this podcast. So, if you have subscribed to the Business Mindset Podcast, that episode should have shown up for you. This is something that I am really excited about, it is kind of a newish tech trick that I learned a month or two ago and my idea is to include podcasts in this feed whenever I am a guest on someone else’s show. Now due to technical reasons that’s not always possible, they have to be hosting with Libsyn, as do I. They also have to be versed in how to do this, but I have provided a tutorial for people to make it easier for them, which will then make it easier for you to listen to episodes where I have been on someone else’s show. This is really important for me because it will help you discover new shows that hopefully you will find interesting and useful. So, that is that.

And I have a quick word – before we get into the main part of the episode – a quick word from Jo Casey herself, who will be telling you a little it about a new online course, online membership program, online treasury of information that she has got, that I have taken a look at recently and I think it is AMAZING. It has got loads of information, really practical stuff that you can just download and personalise for yourself to help you build your business as a coach, or as a therapist, or as a holistic practitioner and just get started with all the stuff that you need. This is really important for me to share with you because I have recently had a few discovery calls with people who are really fresh into business, they are just getting started with business and they need help and support with this basic stuff as they are getting set up. So, this is a really, really, good resource for you as you get your business set up and learn the basics of business.

So, I will turn over to Jo really quick and then I will be back:

Jo: We know that building a coaching, healing, or holistic business can be challenging and isolating, so at the Meaningful Business Academy we don’t think you should have to go it alone.

We have pulled together all of the tools, training and support you need to get more clients and make more income, without you having to resort to the dark arts or sleazy manipulation techniques.

Instead, you will find done-for-you templates, master classes, guest expert interviews and a supportive, like-minded community, all for a low monthly price.

Check out the Meaningful Business Academy at: http://MeaningfulBizAcademy.com because it is time to do business differently.

Holly: Alright, so I am back and thank you Jo for sharing that with us.

So, onto today’s episode, this podcast was inspired by a question that someone asked in my Facebook Group, a topic that was suggested for the two of us to discuss – and we will actually read that post later on in the episode. But, basically, today, in this podcast using me as an example – once again, much like our MBTI episode – we talk about the difference between misalignment and fear. How to tell whether you are out of alignment with your business, or if you are just stuck with fear. Some people can solve this dilemma using logic, but for those of us who are more intuitive, and if you are listening to this podcast I am going to guess you probably identify as being an intuitive person, for those of us who are intuitive we can really struggle with being in this type of situation. The differences are really subtle. And it is really worth digging deeper into this topic to get clarity on what’s exactly going on, so we know exactly what we can do. So, that’s what Jo and I take a look at today.

So, what you are going to learn? You are going to learn: how to determine whether you are experiencing fear or misalignment in your business. You are going to learn how to tap into the feeling behind what’s actually going on. We are going to look at how I worked through the murky months in my business. We are going to explore my journey from doubt to clarity on my business path. We are going to talk about how I identified the difference between fear and misalignment in my own business – and I hope that my story serves as an example for you, so you can see how I have worked through this, and how you might begin to work through it yourself, if you encounter this situation in your business and life. We are going to talk about how to move forward even when you are not 100% clear on what your path is, or where you are going, or what you want to do. We are going to talk about the questions that you need to ask yourself in order to get clear about whether or not you are in alignment with your business. We are going to explore how this fits in with the why behind your business. We are going to talk about how to get clear on what type of fear you are experiencing and the questions that you need to ask yourself. Finally, we are going to wrap it up with the things that you need to pay attention to when you are actually taking action in your business, once you kind of get things figured out and you get going.

Now, since we recorded this episode, I think we recorded this maybe two or three weeks ago, I have got a lot more clarity on my business. So, I am very clear that my path forward for this year – and probably for the foreseeable future – is on my writing. I love writing, I have got so many plans for books. I have got a whole list of books, I have got walking books, I have got mindset books, I am going to be re-releasing new additions of the books that I released two years ago, in 2016, and I am super-super excited about this. So, the books are my main focus for this year and, as I said, for the foreseeable future and I am also going to be seeing clients, because I love seeing clients. But getting clients is not going to be my main focus, my main focus is going to be writing because I can help so many more people with my books than I can with one-to-one client sessions; because my days are limited, my hours are limited, and reading is so much fun. So, that’s my focus. So, I am going to stop talking now and get into today’s episode which is really, really, juicy and I hope you find it interesting and useful as usual.

Jo: Hi everybody! Welcome this is our monthly special podcast episode with me, Jo Casey, and Holly Worton, hiya Holly!

Holly: Hey! How are you?

Jo: I am really good. It is a nice kind of, quite bright – Spring is on the way, dare I say it, type day. We are recording it in early, early, March and we have had snow and cold weather and so today it feels like there is a bit of shift in the energy. How about you?

Holly: Yeah, it is kind of that bright grey! {laughing}

Jo: {laughing} That we are so good at in England!

Holly: As opposed to the dark grey! So, it is quite nice. {laughing}

Jo: {laughing} So – today – we are doing an episode around a question that was asked in your Facebook Group; so, Holly has a Facebook Group called Business Mindset Alchemists, so a woman called Esther asked a question that she wanted us to address on the podcast, so we will just read it out:

Hey Holly, I have been thinking about something just lately, and wondered if anyone has the same thoughts about this. When you are not making the progress that you want in your business how do you know if: 1) you are reluctant to move out of your comfort zone and step up – in which case it may be worth pursuing gently; or 2) what you want to do, or think you should do, is out of alignment with your values – in which case it should probably be abandoned. Both these situations can feel like fear, reluctance, or lead to procrastination. How do you tell the difference if it feels ‘off’ but you are not quite sure why? This is something that I would love to hear you and Jo discuss on the podcast.

So, Esther, your wish is our command!

So, I think this is a really interesting question, and I think it is something that comes up a lot for, particularly, heart-centred entrepreneurs. I honestly think there are some people who are very cerebral, very logical, and they operate primarily from logic and they can do pros and cons lists and things like that and it all kind of works on that level. And I suspect, I may be wrong, but I suspect for those folks this isn’t something that comes up quite so much for them, because they can logically work through. But for those of us who operate more from a gut level, more from a heart-spaced level, I think this is something that is kind of common. Because you and I have both experienced this on more than one occasion, and it is something that comes up for clients that we work with, so, I think it is really important topic of conversation.

Holly: I agree, because the differences are really, really, subtle. So, I think you have got to be the kind of person that can really tune-in to tell the difference.

Jo: And there is a difference, and it is important to be able to distinguish what the difference is, and it is not always that easy to do…so, yeah, we are going to dive into this. So, Holly, this is something that is quite kind of pertinent to you at the moment?

Holly: Yes, it is…so, I have been hinting on the podcast about how things are changing in my business, I am in transition again, things are happening, but I don’t quite know what, and I probably have a little more information this week {laughing} than perhaps I did last week. So, a few things have been happening in my life over the last year that have led to this, so early last year I launched heart-centred-energy-work my new way of working with clients – and that was really exciting and I did the launch and I did all the stuff to get it out there and I set my goals and I signed people up and then afterwards I felt exhausted. And I kind of went into hibernation, not exactly, but I just felt really burnt out with marketing and promoting my business for about a month after that. And then from there it kind of spiralled into this real dislike of marketing, and at the same time I was having all these conversations with my business friends and doing videos, and webinars, about finding new ways of marketing; because I was so tired of the way that online marketing has been functioning for the few last years: I don’t want any part of it, I don’t know what the new way is. And so, I was having all these conversations with friends, both privately and publicly, about how we can find new ways of marketing. But it wasn’t until kind of the end of last year that I was having a chat with a friend of mine, that you also know Jo, Sharon Moore, and she was like: So how are you doing? And I was like: oh, I am just really sick of marketing. {laughing} And she said: Holly, every time I talk to you say the same thing. And this was towards the end of last year and I realised that I had been complaining about that the entire year…

It was just really shocking to me because I am not the kind of person who complains about things, but yet I realised that I had been so just negative about this the entire year. And it was so confusing to me because I have always loved marketing, my business before I did the mindset stuff was social media marketing, when I had my very first business in the hospitality industry, my role within the company was online marketing. I have always really liked marketing, I have never been one of those business owners who has been like: I just want clients, I don’t want to do the marketing. I have loved it. And so, for me to fall out of love with that part of the business was really confusing to me. So, it was like all this stuff was going around my business and things… the energy really started shifting, I loved doing the client sessions, but I hated everything I had to do to get the clients. And, of course, you can’t really run a business if you are not doing any marketing and so things in my business just started feeling out of alignment, and just not feeling right. And I was taking action, and I was doing stuff, but it was just spiralling down into this: just things aren’t right. And it wasn’t until the end of the year that I just sat down and said: things need to change, something is not right, and I need to rethink my business. So here we are! {laughing}

Jo: So…what kind of things have been going on, how has that been showing up for you? I want more detail. Yeah, going into coaching mode {laughing}. Yeah, how has that been showing up, other than this feeling of: I am sick of marketing. I mean, literally, how does that show up for you, that feeling that: I am sick of this?

Holly: Right, just not feeling like doing it, and it is not necessarily…when I first started my business, I struggled with marketing my business because it was like I had a lot of lack of self-confidence, low self-esteem…It wasn’t the mindset stuff, I have been working through all that stuff, so it wasn’t like I was afraid to market myself, because I didn’t want to put myself out there because I didn’t believe that I could do it, it wasn’t that stuff. I didn’t feel like doing the videos, I didn’t feel like doing Facebook lives – no way in hell. I just didn’t even feel like talking about my business. The only thing I really loved was the client sessions, and I knew I loved the podcast, I knew whatever my business morphed into I would not let go of the podcast because I love it so much. And I liked my Facebook group… but, yeah, I just did not feel like doing the marketing.

Jo: So, it was like an inertia?

Holly: Yeah, yeah, exactly so when I think when I say that things were spiralling down to that low point, it was. I got so burnt out from launching the heart-centred energy work, and that was earlier in the year, that was April/May. And then from there it just kind of dwindled down to: ugh I just can’t be bothered; but at the same time knowing that if I wanted to have a business I had to do something. So, it was like I was doing the bare minimum.

Jo: And I think this is something that I won’t say typical, but I think that… I can imagine some kind of business coach going – well, you and I even have had conversations about this – there are some things in your business that you don’t fancy doing but you just have to do if you want your business to work. So, you all know that, and you know that you can push through that to a point; but from what you are saying it sounds like there is something much deeper, much more fundamental, with that.

Holly: Yeah, it wasn’t until the end of the year that I realised that the fact that this had been going on for so many months just signified something more. It wasn’t just that I had fallen out of love with marketing, it was something just wasn’t right in my business and something needed to change, and so I needed something to identify what I was going to do with my business and how things were going to change. And, so, towards the end of last year I decided I was going to stop worrying about the marketing stuff and I was going to focus on my writing – I had published a bunch of books a couple of years ago, last year I put one book out and so I wanted to get back into writing. I really love writing, writing is really important to me, and I love helping people through my books, whether it is my mindset books, or my walking books, I love that. And so, I wanted to focus on writing and I wanted to focus on the outdoor stuff; because simultaneously things were changing in my personal life in the sense that I have been in this spiritual group for about 12 years now and it has been a very important part of my life, it was absolutely life-changing for me. And it is the kind of thing where we have group exercises that we do once a week, where we get together as a group, and then we have personal exercises that we do every day, so kind of like meditation, but different. And that was also not feeling right to me for the last couple of years, it was feeling like something was missing, and I didn’t know quite what was missing at first, and then I realised I spend so much time out in nature and it is not just because I love being outdoors, it’s because I feel a deep spiritual connection to nature, and my spiritual group wasn’t reflecting that. And so, it took me a while to find my new path, I still haven’t let go of the old path, but I have found my new path and I am now studying Druidry and that just feels so right. And so, I realise that in addition to focusing on my writing this year I also wanted to focus on my walking groups and taking women out walking, like I do with my meetup group, but doing more of that and bringing more of the spiritual side into the walks. So, rather than we are going to walk on a trail for five years hours, bringing some of that deeper connection to nature into the walks and perhaps taking my mindset clients outdoors and working with them in that way. But, again, this has kind of been going on for the last couple of months, but I haven’t had 100% clarity on what that looks like.

Jo: Ok, I have got all kinds of questions on that. I am like ooh Druidry, I have always been fascinated by that! {laughing}

Holly: Go for it!

Jo: So, it sounds to me as you are talking that actually you do have quite a lot of clarity around this?

Holly: Yeah, yeah, I have more clarity than I think I have realised.

Jo: So where do you think the doubt has been, or the belief that you are doubting it?

Holly: Well, I had a big shift on Monday, when I had a session with my friend Cara Wilde, and I realised – ever since I trained as a coach – I have been so stuck on the way to run a business is by coaching people, or doing the mindset work with people, but having those one-to-one sessions, which I love. But, I have realised, that I really want to serve people through my writing. And, so, I think my business is going to kind of do a flip where I am focussing more on serving people through my writing and then if people want to do the one-to-one work with me great, I love doing that; but my focus is going to be more on serving people through the books, and helping people with mindset stuff but kind of teaching through writing.

Jo: It also sounds like this nature connection is so vital, almost, to this next…?

Holly: It is.

Jo: …evolution.

Holly: I don’t know how to combine them, that’s the thing, I don’t know how to combine the two; so it is kind of like I have these two things, so I have got the business mindset stuff on one hand, and then I have got the nature stuff on the other hand, both are incredibly important to me, I don’t want to run two businesses, but I am not quite sure how to bring the two together, so I think that’s the piece that’s either missing or it is going to become clear as I kind of walk down these two paths.

Jo: Literally and metaphorically.

Holly: Yes!

Both: {laughing}

Jo: So then, going back to Esther’s question, what’s your process been around being able to identify which has been fear? Because I can hear some of that kind of fear…I don’t know how to do it, business-wise, and how much of it has it been: I know that this isn’t in alignment for me?

Holly: Well I think, for a lot of last year, it was just falling out of alignment, but not seeing that, and towards the end of last year it just hit me, things are not in alignment. And then now, as I am getting clarity, and I am finding the new way forward, I think some new fears are popping up because I don’t have that 100% clarity on my vision and where it is that I am going. And I am the kind of person who, I like to know exactly where I am going; and I like to have a clear vision, and I like to know exactly what to focus on. And, so, I am coming out of that messy middle, but I am still at the end part of it, and so I still find it kind of frustrating and I am fearful about not having the 100% clear vision of where I am going with this business.

Jo: Yes, I hear that, and for some reason part of me is smiling and going: well nature doesn’t have a clear vision…

Both: {laughing}

Holly: I know, exactly, {laughing} nature wants a snow storm she gives you a snow storm.

Jo: Exactly, exactly. So, again, kind of going back to Esther’s question, I really want to drill down on this. What were the signs when you realised, what for you – because I think this is going to be slightly different for everyone – but for you how did you know: oh this isn’t just that I feel like I am out of my comfort zone, this is like…this just isn’t right for me now, there has been a shift, there has been a ground shift.

Holly: It was like a gut feeling that I was out of alignment with my business; and I am very much a gut feeling kind of person, as you know. But, it took me a long time to get clarity on that, I wasn’t feeling it, I wasn’t seeing it, and then once everything kind of fell into place it was like: this just doesn’t feel right, I have got to shift things, so I can find a new path forward.

Jo: I think that’s really interesting because my experience of when things are out of alignment is also very kinaesthetic, it is also very kind of… And I think there is a sematic way that we can tune in, especially for heart-centred folks and people who have meaningful businesses. You can only logically think yourself through something for so long, until you kind of get to the point of saying: actually, how is this feeling, how is this sitting with me? Where in my body am I getting this sensation? How does my body feel when I am in alignment, how does my body feel when I am not in alignment? So, I am wondering if that is similar to your gut check?

Holly: Yeah, I think it is. And I think that often we don’t pay attention to those signs, but I think it is really, really, valuable to sit and ask ourselves those questions: When I am excited about something, how does that feel? Do I still feel excited about my business? No. So maybe somethings wrong there. Is it fear? Or is it just out of alignment? And I think that’s the thing, it was really clear to me that it wasn’t fear, and yes, I could have used my head to override that and say: Well, I am just going to say get on with it, I am going to do the hustle, and I am going to do the marketing. But, for me, the most important thing has always been spiritual, and personal, development, and growing as a person; and in order to do that I need to be open and aware to these subtle things such as: my business is out of alignment, something needs to shift. Rather than just forging on and doing the thing that I said I was going to do.

Jo: That’s what I meant by my comment that nature doesn’t need…and I think that’s something that sets people apart who are driven by creating something meaningful in the world, creating something that is heart-centred; it is almost like there is no point in doing it if it isn’t aligned. And it is kind of deeper than that, what I find is that when something becomes out of alignment it is almost impossible to kind of drag yourself through it. It is very frustrating because the business brain, the business part of you kind of goes: well, come on you know what to do! But, the whole rest of you is saying: nope! So, I think there is definitely a physical, kinaesthetic thing, that occurs. I think there is also something about, you know, whatever that term alignment means to you. So, for you, Holly, you are someone who is very aware spiritually, you are very tuned into that, you are very tuned into the spirits and guides and nature. And I can’t help but think in metaphors now of nature and it is like: you can have the most fantastically, scientifically produced seed in the world, but if you put it in conditions, if you put it in the soil and it doesn’t have the right mix of nutrients, it isn’t in the right aspect, then it is not going to grow and it is not going to flourish. And so, I think there is something about having those elemental things and your business does well.

Holly: And I also think it is important to realise, why are you doing your business? I think for people who are running a business because they just want to be self-employed, they want to be an entrepreneur, and they just want to make money, then who cares if you are in alignment, because you want the money that’s your number one priority, but for me that’s always been secondary to serving people and helping people in a way that is deeply aligned with me. And I am changing constantly so it makes sense that my business would change.

Jo: Yeah absolutely. And in one of the notes that I made for topics to discuss as part of this conversation, is, how does this iteration of your business or the thing that you are in a dilemma as to whether to do, again going back to Esther’s question is, how does this fit in with the why in your business? If your why is to make money, to be able to escape a 9-5 job that you are in, then fine, it doesn’t really matter, because your why is: I want freedom, I want to be able to make money. I can do drop-shipping or do whatever and it really doesn’t matter. But, if your why is: I want to change the world in my own little way, or I want to be able to help people through my writing, or help people to raise their awareness, or be less hard on themselves or change the conversation about something; then if the actions that you are telling yourself, you should be taking in your business isn’t taking you closer to that why, or deeper into that why, then I think there is going to be internal pushback against it, which can be good but also maddeningly frustrating, because, you know, we have all got to eat as well.

Holly: Yeah.

Jo: I am really curious about this idea of fear, and there is a lovely blog post which we will link to in the show notes from Tara Moore, the Author of Playing Big, and she talks about different kinds of fear. It is such a good concept to unpack, because it can still be fear and be the right thing to do; and it can still be fear and be the wrong thing to do. {laughing} Fear shows up in a number of ways. In this blogpost she talks about, she has a conversation with Rabbi Alan Lew and he explains that in Biblical Hebrew there are several different ways for fear. Pachad is projected or imagined fear, fear whose objects are imagined. In modern terms we might think of as the imaginary lizard brain – it is like: oh my God, what will people think of me, if I produce this thing will people think I am getting too big for my boots? That kind of fear, those kinds of blocks, imposter complex, the stuff that you and I help people to work through, all the time Holly. There is another type of fear, there is a second Hebrew word for fear, which is yirah, and Rabbi Lew describes this as: the fear that overcomes us when we suddenly describe ourselves as in possession of considering more energy than we are used to; inhabiting a larger space than we are used to inhabiting; and it is also the feeling we feel when we are on sacred ground.

And Tara Moore says if you have felt a calling in your heart or uncovered an authentic dream for your life or felt a mysterious sense of inspiration around a project, or idea, then you recognise this description. And we can often confuse the two types of fear and call it fear, but if we start to unpack them a little bit more then we can start to tease out the two things. I think we need to approach them differently, when we are dealing with that lizard brain, irrational, we have tools we can use to sometimes logically break those down and just kind of bypass that amygdala response to the kind of: ah that is really scary! And we also have some tools that we can use when we are dealing with yirah… I think a big one for me is that being able to expand into that space; being in a community knowing that you have people that are supporting you and encouraging you and almost holding you there as you grow into this new space. That’s just absolutely invaluable.

But the first step with all of this is understanding, that even if it is fear it can still be fear of becoming bigger or stepper into the thing that is right, and we need to do some self-awareness work around that. What is this fear telling me? Where is it coming from? How is it showing up? Is it justified? Is it real? Is it helpful? Is it something that I want to listen to, has it got lessons to teach me? And so, it is important to recognise even if it’s fear it doesn’t mean that it is necessarily something that you just blast through.

Holly: Yeah and I think, conversely, so going back to your plans, your vision for your business: are you still excited about that? Do you still get excited about this vision that you set out for yourself? If not, then maybe you are out of alignment as well. But if you are really excited about it still, but yet fearful, that’s also kind of a good sign that you are on the right track and you just need to work through those fears.

Jo: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Do you ever wish that there was like a simple answer to these things? {laughing} Oh hell yes!

Holly: If it were simple, everyone would have successful businesses and we would all be like enlightened because it would be easy; but this is such an important part of personal and professional growth, is to become aware of these really subtle differences between things. And like you said in the beginning, they show up differently for everyone. It is not like we can say: if this happens, then it is because you are scared of moving out of your comfort zone and if that happens you are out of alignment. It is so different for everyone and if we asked 10 entrepreneurs we would get 10 different answers.

Jo: I do think that the very first step is just having that kind of space, and allowing yourself to be able to do the work around: what is going on here for me, how does it feel, what are some of things that I am telling myself about it? How does it feel in my body? Rather than just trying to push, push, push through. Because I also think that we live in this really instant culture, we think everything should be super easy, there should be a pill for that. And oh gosh I really wish that there was sometimes; but there isn’t. If you want something rich, and deep, and meaningful then this is the work sometimes.

Holly: Yeah, and I think that’s another really important thing what you just said, oftentimes when we get into business for the first time, if we don’t have prior business experience we think: oh, I have this idea, I just need to take action and I am going to be an instant success. And most of the time that’s not how it works and most of the time, whatever you do, and if you are taking action outside of your comfort zone, you have still got to do a lot of work to get to the point where it is successful and flowing and whatever.

Jo: Also, when you are out of alignment, it is like you are wearing concrete boots or something. {laughing} I don’t know if it is worth mentioning but I am working with the amazing Tanya Guise at the moment, she is my coach at the moment, I just want her to be my coach forever, because she is brilliant. One of the things that she has had an idea, and people in her program do, is that you identify your brand of joy. Your brand of joy is a bit like your zone of genius and identify the times when you really feel like you are in the zone and you are alive, you are just lit up when you are doing your work. And I am curious for you Holly, where your brand of joy, where your zone of genius, where those places are where you are lit up in your work, where they are right now?

Holly: Well, still doing the client sessions, I love asking the questions, and digging deep and getting curious and picking apart the mind-crap that people have so we can unravel it and help the get the beliefs that they need to do whatever it is that they want. So, that I love, I get really excited about that, but I also love the outdoor stuff. I love taking women out on my meetup group and showing them places and seeing them as we go round the bend on a trail and they see something beautiful and they go: oh, this is gorgeous, this is amazing and it is all these places that I go walking all the time, but they haven’t seen it before and they just think it is amazing. So, I just love sharing that beauty of nature with people, so it is two very different things.

Jo: I don’t know, I can see them…so the the next stage that Tanya had us do is identify where your brand of joy is and how can you start to incorporate that into other areas of your life and your business. I have mentioned this on the podcast before, my daughter has been quite ill of late, fortunately (I am touching everything made of wood and every crystal healing thing ever), we seem to have turned a bit of a corner with it, she has been on some new medication {Holly: oh good!} she has not had an asthma attack in weeks now, which has been just brilliant – brilliant doesn’t even cover it obviously.

Holly: And especially with the weather that we have been having, that’s a miracle.

Jo: Yes, I know, it has been super super cold which has been a trigger for her. But for the past few weeks she has been really well, she has been on this medication they have given her. But one of the things that I was really struggling with at the turn of the year and January and February, was that my business has been built on…so, one of the areas where my brand of joy comes out is where I am in deep connection with people. And that, for me, has always been in the conversations I have with my coaching clients where I am doing that deep work with clients and I love it. So, my business has been built around lots of one-on-one sessions, I have a group program but even that group program is intimate and there are one-on-one sessions involved in that. I have never wanted to do the kind of ‘I have 40 people in a group and have no contact with them’. So, I am really struggling with this: well, how can I really find joy in my business when I feel I can’t do the things that give me the most joy. And so one of the things that Tanya had me do was identify where I could be using that connection, that deep connection in other areas of my life and my business, while things are kind of sorting out with Myra. And I realise that the podcast gives me an opportunity to do that. And those of you who listen to the Meaningful Business Podcast, you will have noticed a real shift in the types of conversations that I am having with people. I am doing more longer, more in-depth interviews, I want to know the why behind people’s businesses. I want to do know what makes a meaningful business for them and being able to just lean into those deeper conversations rather than feeling – earlier on in my podcast I felt like: I have to give people the space to promote their business and give some tactics and tools and things like that. Whereas it is much more conversational, and connection based, but not only has that given me that light back around things, it has also proven to be really popular. Who would have thought that when you are working in your zone of genius people will respond really, really, well? Fortunately, Myra is a lot better at the moment, and so I am tentatively opening up the books now and doing more of one-on-one sessions and things. But there is also something around if you can true to the sense of: What is it that gives me that sense of connection? What is it that lights me up? What is it that gives me joy? Then I think it becomes a little bit easier to find the path to: this is where the next kind of bit of my business needs to go, because if I just follow where this path is leading me to, on my better days, I can trust that it will lead me somewhere where I am going to be able to make money from it, and turn it into a business; because that is a secondary thing. If I just follow this thing that I know I am good at, and gives me joy, and where it is in alignment, then I know that is always a great starting point. Everything else is work-out-able from there, I am sure that is not an actual work, but does that make sense?

Holly: Yes, it does definitely.

Jo: It is so easy as an outsider to be able to say: I can see this being just absolutely glorious for you Holly. I know that it’s all going to fall into place, you will work out the pieces of how to move your business over so that you are able to stay in this place of real alignment and richness, because that’s what you love and that’s where you are really giving value to you. As I said, it is easy for me as an outsider to say that, but I know that when you are in it, it is like: but how do the pieces pull together?

Holly: Yeah and one of the things that has always been challenging for me has been, taking one step and trusting that after I have taken that step I will know what the next step is I need to take. And that was the lesson I thought I had learned when I channeled the heart-centred-energy-work process. It came to me literally step by step, I had to do the first step and then the second one was visible. But, that’s still really frustrating for me, so like I said I really want the full vision and then I am happy to charge forward, but I have had to take little action steps to start moving towards these kind of two things would seem to be very separate paths when at some point they are probably going to come together and merge into something that is going to be totally logical even though I can’t see that now. So, I am still having that having to take action, even though I don’t see that full vision.

Jo: I think that’s just part of being a rational human, is to kind of go: yeah, but, I would feel so much better if I knew what all the steps were please right now…yeah it is just not how it works unfortunately.

Holly: But I think because I have kind of identified these two paths as being in alignment it is easier to take the action even though it is not as easy as I would like it to be.pl I think that’s another sign, when I was focussing on the walking stuff and I thought: I want to take people out walking more and so I need sports insurance, and that was a pain in the ass to get – but I easily took action on that and I called the insurance guy every day because he wasn’t responding to me and I was getting the stuff I needed to get. And that was actually really easy, even though it was a pain in the ass, because I knew I needed that in order to spend more time with people out in nature, you know. So, that’s another thing to pay attention, when you take the action – is it easy? Or maybe that’s not it, I am not sure exactly what I want to say here… There were road blocks, I kept having to overcome challenges, but it was so clear to me that I needed that thing so that I was taking action on it.

Jo: I can completely relate to that, and I think that when you are doing something new, the familiar is always easier because it is familiar. We can see the pitfalls, even though it might be boring, but I think when it is something so new and yet you have this calling which is saying: do it for all of this, you are almost having to overcome that logic part of your brain which is going: but there could be anything out there, are you sure this is a good idea? I think we should just stay where we were, because at least we knew it was safe there. And so, you are having to manage that, because that is a natural human response and still do the work to be able to keep tuning into what for me, obviously you are far more spiritually attuned, to that voice that is saying: this is the path to follow. It is always quieter, and I have to get still. And when I am in the fear place I like to be really busy because I like to try and run away from that shit as much as I can!

Holly: I think that’s a really, really, good point. Quiet time, journalling, whatever it is that you do to get clarity from that quiet space. Guided meditations, I have found those so useful in the past when I have done transitions in my business making big changes. Quieting down, allowing that information to come through, allowing the voice of your intuition to speak, because it is so hard to hear sometimes if you are busy, busy, busy.

Jo: And acknowledging that, you know: this is going to be messy for a while.

Holly: And being willing to wade through that mess rather than running away from it.

Jo: Anything else that you want to add to this conversation, to Esther’s question of how do we know the difference?

Holly: I was just thinking it feels like we need to sum this up, but it is not something that we can neatly sum up.

Jo: So, I think, the points that we have covered have been: how do you know the difference between when it is out of your comfort zone and when it is a question of stepping up? It is like that new level new devil kind of feeling? I think a big part of that is being aware of what’s the type of chatter and dialogue that you have got going on around that. What’s going on for you physically? How does it feel in your body? What’s the sematic response that? And examining that questions of: is this that kind of fear of stepping into something greater, that yirah, or is the common bog standard pacha, the: oh my God, what will people think of me, what if it is a disaster?

Holly: What if it doesn’t work? What if I come up with this new idea and get excited about it and it doesn’t work?

Jo: Yes, exactly. What if I am burning my whole business down by doing this? Which is a fear that I genuinely had for a good chunk of the early part of last year when I was transitioning in my business. So, being able to almost identify the different types of fear and the different types of experience that you have around fear, or that you have around alignment or when it is out of alignment. And maybe for you maybe it is not something that is physical, maybe it is something that is more visual? Maybe it is something that is more auditory? As NLP practitioners we are aware that for some people it is very…it just feels out of harmony to me. It is just that something sounds off about it, it is just playing a bum note for me.

Holly: Yes, I think that can sometimes be very difficult for us to see on our own but now that you are said that I remember master-gut call, I don’t know if it was the last one or the previous one, where I was talking about: I am really excited about focussing more on my writing, and getting my books and doing a new edition of my books. And they were like: your face, your energy changed so much, your face lit up and you sounded so excited. And I hadn’t seen that on my own, so I really needed my master-gut people to mirror that back to me. So, I think talking this out with business friends, or personal friends, or whatever, can also help if they are the kind of person who can be aware of the changes in you as you talk about these things.

Jo: Yeah, for sure, getting outside of your own head, and your own perspective, it is just vital for everything. We can’t see our own blind spots. And, as somebody who can overthink, I could win Olympic Gold in the overthinking Olympics, having other people: I am just going to dump all my thoughts out, and help me sort through them, oh my goodness, I don’t know how I would function without having that.

Holly: And of course, working with a coach, not just having this conversation with friends, but working with someone professional who can professionally pick apart the shit in your head and help you see things that you can’t see.

Jo: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Those are the tools we are trained to use, that is our profession, that’s what we do and sometimes it is about: okay, this is about doing the work. And it may feel scary, the place that you are in now, and it probably feels even scarier, the thought of taking the next step, but the only other option is that you give up, or you kind of stay in this place of: I don’t know what to do. And that is not sustainable, it is about, I know it is a cliché, but the only way out of it is through.

Holly: That you have got to be willing to walk through it.

Jo: Literally in your case, Holly.

Holly: Yes.

Both: {laughing}

Jo: Anything else before we wrap it up?

Holly: No, I feel like, again this is so different for everyone, but I feel like we have given people some ideas of where they can get started, to figure out whether they are scared of moving out of their comfort zone or out of alignment. So, I feel like, this has been a good start so hopefully people will have a better idea of where they are now.

Jo: Yeah, I hope so, and I am really excited about where the next kind of iteration of where Holly’s work is taking, I genuinely am. One of the things that I said to you when we first hopped on Skype this morning was: there has been a real shift in your energy, something has happened. You seem much more kind of grounded and not that you were flighty before, you just seem a lot more rooted in your energy.

Holly: It’s the Druidry. {laughing}

Jo: It is yes, I am fascinated now to ask zillions of questions about Druidry; but that maybe we will save for another session.

Holly: Yes.

Jo: Thank you so much for being so open and honest about your approaches, one thing that I always admire about you, Holly, I think makes for great conversations is that you are really open to being transparent and there is not an ounce of artifice about you and I think that is why people are so attracted to you and your work.

Holly: Oh, thank you.

Jo: Why I am really pleased to call you my friend.

Holly: Oh, thank you! I think these kinds of conversations are so much more useful to people than: my business is amazing, 6 figures in 6 months, and you can do this, and you can hustle without acknowledging the crappy parts of business, so I think that these deeper parts of conversations I find much more useful, so.

Jo: Yeah, it is not all smooth sailing but when it works it is glorious, and when it doesn’t work it can feel really shitty.

Holly: Really frustrating, really murky.

Jo: But there is always a way through it and that’s what we like to focus on, it is not always a neat way through it, it is easy, but there is always a way through it.

Holly: Exactly but to get through it you have got to take action, no matter what. You have to do something, you can’t just sit there and moan about how you are stuck, something you have got to do. Even if it is a tiny, tiny, tiny, little action that makes no sense, you have got to do something to get moving. Thank you for this conversation.

Jo: Thank you. And thanks to everyone out there for listening, if you have got any questions about it you can find it: [email protected]

Holly: [email protected]

Jo: I was trying to do my radio voice [laughing] it was me trying to be cheesier than I am capable of! Thanks so much for listening and we will speak to you soon.

Holly: Bye. So, please drop me a line and let me know what you thought, about this week’s episode. You can email me at: [email protected] or you can find me on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram and get in touch there. I would love to give you a shout out on the show if you would like to write in. I would also love for you to join me in my private Facebook group: Business Mindset Alchemists, so we can continue the conversation there; I would love to hear what you think about this episode and get some feedback from you. This is a goo up that is dedicated to exploring business mindset and how you can get the mindset you need to achieve your goals. I would love to see you in there so if you head over to https://www.hollyworton.com/group you will be redirected to the Facebook group. Finally whether you have been listening to the show for a while, or if you have just heard your first episode, if you are drawn to learning more about mindset and you would like to learn more about how you can work with me or whether or not we are a good fit, please get in touch or head over to https://www.hollyworton.com/call . You can book in a call with me to learn more, I would love to work with you and help you transform your mindset using heart-centred-energy-work.

Thanks you so much for listening, I say this every week and I am so grateful that you listen every week and if you enjoy this episode please leave a quick review on iTunes it would mean the world to me and remember to visit hollyworton.com/246 for the show notes on this episode.

And next week I am back with another solo episode, so thank you so much for joining me and have a fabulous day.