248: Holly + Joanna Hennon ~ How to Make Money Manifesting Work for You

Today’s Guest

More About Joanna Hennon

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What You’ll Learn

• If we’re all doing transformation work, why aren’t we all rich?
• Why we often measure too soon and how that’s a problem
• Why none of this is actually about money — and what it’s really about
• What the highest priority actually is (and why it’s not really money)
• Why your relationship with money is the same as your relationship with the Universe
• Why money is just a symptom that causes us pain — and what we need to do with that pain
• How to look at all the work happens behind the scenes before the money is visible
• How to get out of the stuck place where all you feel is lack
• Why it’s so important to dig deeper into what it means to not have “enough” money (and how to do that)
• Why you need to say yes to opportunities, even when they’re not what you expected
• Why just because you do the work, it doesn’t guarantee the money
• Can you create money out of thin air?
• Why the energy needs to flow and how that might affect retaining money in savings
• How money relates to lifestyle, and how to make sure that you end up with the lifestyle you actually want
• What to do when we get attached to where the money is coming from (and does it really matter?)
• Things you can do TODAY to start taking action to get the money and the lifestyle you really want

Things We Discussed

• PSYCH-K®
• EFT
• The Soul Space 
• Business Beliefs book
• Business Blocks book 
• Joanna’s Facebook group 
• Holly’s Facebook group

Connect with Joanna

• Website
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Pinterest

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• [R2B 90] How to Overcome Your Money Blocks, with Denise Duffield-Thomas
• [SHP 66] How to Heal Your Money Blocks, with Yiye Zhang
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Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

Holly:  Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 248. This is your host Holly Worton and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Joanna Hennon. Today, we are going to talk about money. So, today’s episode was inspired by last month’s episode on transformation work, which was titled: Can you expect miracles from doing transformation work? This month we dig deeper into the specifics of money manifesting, money mindset and transformation work around money. We look at why this is such a big issue for so many of us and why we actually need to dig deeper and really get to core of our money stuff before we will actually see the results and how to do that.

So, what are you going to learn?

We talk about so much — this is a really nice, deep, juicy episode. We ask the question: if we are all doing transformation work why aren’t we all rich? We look at why we often measure too soon, and why that’s a problem. We look at how none of this is actually about money, and what it is really about instead. We talk about what the highest priority actually is and why it is not really money. We look at why your relationship with money is the same as your relationship with the universe. We talk about why money is just a symptom that causes us pain, it is like the tip of the iceberg and what we need to do with that pain to get to that underwater iceberg bit. We talk about how to look at all the work that happens behind the scenes before the money actually shows up and is visible. You are going to learn how to get out of that stuck place where all you feel is lack of money. We look at why it is so important to dig deeper into what it means to not have enough money and how to do that. We talk about why you need to say yes to opportunities even when they are not what you expected; and Joanna has a great story about this that you might not have heard before. We look at why, just because you do the work it doesn’t necessarily guarantee the money. We ask the question: can you create money out of thin air? We also look at why the energy needs to flow and why that might affect retaining money and savings. We look at how money relates to lifestyle and how you need to make sure that you end up with the lifestyle you actually want. We look at what to do when we get attached to where the money is coming from and does it really matter where the money comes from? We also talk about practical action stuff that you can do today to start taking action to get the money and the lifestyle that you really want.

So, without further ado, moving onto today’s episode, I open you find it interesting and useful.

Holly: Hello Joanna!

Joanna: Hi Holly!

Holly: How are you doing?

Joanna: I’m good, how are you?

Holly: Good, I am looking forward to talking about today’s topic.

Joanna: Money!

Holly: Yes!

Joanna: Everybody loves talking about money, right?

Holly: I don’t know, I think a lot of us have so much stuff wrapped up in it that it can be either be an exciting conversation, or a painful conversation depending on how we feel about our money situation.

Joanna: That’s true, I suppose I should have specified that personal development junkies, like us, love talking about money.

Holly: {laughing} yes! Alright, so where did this topic come from, it kind of leads on from our last episode. I keep saying last session! {laughing}

Joanna: Yeah, we were talking about how transformational our transformational tools are really, and that happened because I had been on this PSYCH-K workshop which is a modality which you are very, very, familiar with obviously and so we were talking about that and because it is such a great tool, and it is not the only tool, we were talking about EFT as well – we have all these great tools and we are all using, we are going to assume that we are all using these tools, but we aren’t all rich. And so, that was a question that came up for us and I think it is probably coming up for a lot of people, you are doing the transformation work, but you are not rich, why not?

Holly: Why aren’t you seeing miraculous results?

Joanna: Yeah, especially…probably a lot of programs that we buy, and I include myself in this, promise miraculous results, right?

Holly: Yeah!

Joanna: If you do this, then this will happen. So, we are kind of expecting this causality, it doesn’t seem to be working out that way in a lot of cases. So, then we thought that we would talk about money, so here we are.

Holly: Exactly, and I think it is interesting what you said; and I think whether it is an online I course or one-to-one coaching or group mastermind, or apprenticeship program, a lot of times what it is offering is more clients that means more money.

Joanna: The reason I think all those programs are offering that is that that’s what we think we all want.

Holly: Right.

Joanna: I have been coached by a lot of people who try to put what I offer, what I teach, which is how to be more soul-smart and more wisdom into that box, so I was giving people, offering people what they think they want, which is more clients and more money. And, I don’t know, I have always thought that that’s making something really exciting [being more soul-smart] really two-dimensional. It is like taking all this wonder of the universe, all this greatness, and pushing it down into a box called, ‘clients and money’ — and it just loses its sparkle. {laughing}

Holly: Yeah, it does and not only that it is like if we are in a purpose-driven, soul-led, inspiring, life-changing business kind of thing, and yet we distill it all down to the money rather than kind of like that deep purpose of being here to help people and serve people and make the world a better place; that’s also like a weird balance. Because obviously, I think neither of us are the kind of people who think we must serve for free and that’s BS, but it is so hard to balance that: ‘I want to serve’ and ‘I want to change the world’ with: ‘I also want to make a ton of money doing it’.

Joanna: Yes, I think there is a trust thing there, I do believe that if you lead with that serving piece and then the money will follow, and we see that time and time again in examples – and we see a lot of successful people actually say that. But, I think it is really hard when you are starting out, when you don’t have the money, to be in that space and not focus on the money so that we can pay the bills. I think we can all agree that money is super important.

Holly: Obviously, we can’t live without it.

Joanna: You can’t, well you probably can, I saw an article the other day about a guy who lives in a cave…so….

Holly: Well, yeah.

Joanna: I don’t want to live in a cave! {laughing}

Holly: No! {laughing} maybe for a weekend retreat that might be nice, but…

Joanna: Not even that!

Holly: Okay. But, I think this brings up something you mentioned earlier when we were preparing for the episode which was that we often measure too soon. We start our business, we have such great high hopes of making fast money because we see online that people appear to be making big, fast money and then we say: why isn’t it working?

Joanna: Yeah, I think that’s a problem, because that’s a really, really, dangerous place to be. You are focussing on it, you have decided that it’s not working, and you are asking why, so the way your brain is wired is to find the answer to that questions so that it takes that assumption as truth and it tries to find reasons for why it’s not working and that’s just dangerous. I think energy-wise and action-wise. If you think it is not working are you going to take the next action steps? No! Because it’s not worth it, if it is not going to produce any of the results that you want.

Holly: Exactly, because you are playing detective trying to figure out why you have so much lack and you are focussing on the lack and not on how to get what you want.

Joanna: So, I think that’s just a dangerous place to be. Every listener, if you find yourself in that space and then do what you can to bring yourself back out, that you are willing to move forward, that’s just going to keep you stuck and I know we can discuss but really in my case if it is not working, it is never going to work because you are going to get stuck in that place. So, whatever you can do to take that next step, try something else, or whatever. So, yes, I do think we often measure too soon, and just decide that it didn’t work.

Holly: So, for people who are listening who are stuck in that place of lack, of its not working, like: why am I not getting what I want which is more money, more clients, how do you recommend that people get out of that place?

Joanna: If I only like had the exact formula for this, I too would be super rich!

Holly: And that’s the thing it is different for everybody.

Joanna: That’s the thing it is different for everybody. I teach manifestation, there is no actual formula and there are certain aspects and certain things you need to pay attention to, but when you work with energy you are energy yourself, so you need to figure out how you interact with energy. If you are in that space I actually recommend, so this is something I did and not something pulled out of thin air, is to disassociate money from feeling good and feeling successful.

Holly: And how do you do that? We have that so ingrained that the two things are kind of meshed or fused together.

Joanna: Yeah, I had to do it because it was something that I was faced with a situation where no money was coming in and I still had like three months left of that particular experiment where I decided: either I can spend the next three months miserable or I can just let go of the money piece. Because I knew that in three months I would get some money, I was in a lucky position. I remember that feeling of thinking: I just have to let go of the money, altogether, because I want to enjoy this time. So, I just have to stop thinking about money. I know that it’s important, I know that without it I won’t be able to do this and that, but I just have to let go. I think we have talked about this before Holly, I just focussed on the success piece and make sure that I felt good and successful every day and there are things that made me feel that way irrespective of whether the money was coming in. And, if you have heard me talk about this before that’s when the money started flowing in, once I managed to disassociate, once I was willing to hit that rock bottom: I am going to have let go of this. Even if I don’t make any money in my business, ever, am I going to be miserable for the rest of my life, no!?

Holly: And this is something that you focussed on in your soulsmart space last month, success as success, not necessarily success as money.

Joanna: This month in the soulspace we are doing money, the reason that I did that was because when I asked the question about success, everybody responded with their thoughts about money. And I was like: all right so we clearly need to disassociate these two things and then tackle money after we allow ourselves to be successful. And that’s working a lot better I think.

Holly: Because money is such a big piece and even as we were talking before we started recording today, we have 1000 bullet points here about stuff that we could talk about, that we may or may not get to, because it is such a big piece for people. In my books, Business Beliefs, and Business Blocks, I have the biggest list of business beliefs around money because that is one of the biggest things for people and that’s one of the biggest thing that comes up in client work: money, money, money.

Joanna: And I think, I mean, it is like…of course we do need to work on money stuff, I’m not saying we don’t, we all have money crap, money beliefs that are old, or outdated, or supportive or whatever. If you know that you have those then get Holly’s book and work on that because that’s a really good source. But, you need to zoom out, because it is not actually about the money, so when we were preparing I was telling you about the stuff that I channeled about money and really every time that I ask my guides for information about money they ask me to zoom out and understand that it’s not about money, but it is about your whole relationship with everything. With the universe, with the world, with yourself, with existence, with everything.

Holly: So, how do you zoom out and get that kind of bigger picture view, it is like they say you can’t see the forest for the trees because you are focussed on that one money tree and you can’t see all the other trees in your life.

Joanna: I don’t know how do you do it, Holly? For me it is just a choice, I haven’t come up with a better answer and you have to want to and you have to choose to.

Holly: I don’t know, I think I do allow myself the indulgence of focussing on this particular stuff because it allows me to do the mindset work on it… So, if money is a pain for me in a particular month, I use that as the trigger to focus on: okay, what do I want instead? What do I want? What are the blocks? What’s the stuff that I need to shift because money and other things can be the symptom that causes the pain and gets us to do the transformation work. Like you said earlier it is like the tip of an iceberg of this whole block of energy stuff and blocks and fears and limiting beliefs and stuff and the money is such a pain that it gets us to do the work that is going to shift a whole bunch of other stuff.

Joanna: Yeah, because our whole life is meant to be about life, not about money.

Holly: Exactly!

Joanna: So, we get stuck in the money piece, because obviously we need money to live, but if we zoom out and look at it, just look and be honest with yourself: what do you believe about money? The example I always use is that if you think that you don’t have enough, right? Then look at the rest of your life where else do you think that you don’t have enough? What are you judging is not enough? Where are you judging yourself as not enough? Where does that ‘not enough’ concept show up?

Holly: Yeah and what was the first instance in your life where you felt that sense of lack and not enough? Is it, ‘I am not enough?’, because often that’s it.

Joanna: I think that’s it, and then of course if you feel like you are not enough, and you are not doing enough, and you are not going fast enough and all this other stuff then what can money, which is energy like you, reflect not enough.

Holly: Yeah.

Joanna: I just think that it is really interesting to, if you are really frustrated with money, to try and zoom out and look at other areas of your life, or try to see the patterns or the themes, because as you said money is the ice of the iceberg. So, I will share what my guides imagery, or whatever as a theatre for production, that money was the end result that we all want. Like, when you go to the theatre it is all perfect or should be.

Holly: Can it really be perfect?

Joanna: Not perfect, but it is done…it is a complete project. It is a whole. That’s what money is and that’s what we want. We want to sit back and watch this abundance and experience this abundance, right? But, when you think about what had to happen for that piece to come together, somebody had to have a vision, somebody had to hold auditions, somebody had to hire actors and tell them where to stand, and where to move and they also had opinions, you know, and they contributed. And then you had to have the props, and sell tickets, and tell people and marketing, whatever, so there was a lot that went into that, that you don’t actually see. And you are probably, unless you are a theatre geek like me, you probably don’t think about that when you go to see a production, right? But yeah, it is all the behind the scenes stuff…the lights and sounds. I really like that way of looking at money. Then if the money is the production then what needs to go into the process of creating that result?

Holly: Right.

Joanna: What’s your vision? Where are your actors? Where is your lighting? What part of the stage is it lighting up, right?

Holly: I think that image, I don’t know how to put that into words, it makes me realise how much of a big production it is, and how much goes into it. And I think that a lot of the marketing and the products and services and stuff that is offered in the online business world, makes it sound so simple. And I think maybe it can be simple in some instances, but there is a lot that goes into it as well.

Joanna: It can be simple, but it can’t be on the surface.

Holly: Right.

Joanna: It has to go deep.

Holly: So, that’s the point here, this is deep work that we are doing, if we are doing money transformation stuff.

Joanna: I think that’s the thing, because it is not about money and I remember when we first met I went to Holly for a PSYCH-K session, and I remember what I wanted was for like Holly to do her magic and then I would be rich!

Both: {laughing}

Holly: Unfortunately, it doesn’t happen that way, I totally wish it did but no.

Joanna: I went with these top-level beliefs that I wanted shifted or that I wanted to believe, typical ones: it is easy for me to make my money in my business, but that’s not enough! Over the years I have explored various aspects of that and tried different things and whatever, and it is becoming easier and easier I won’t hide that, it is, it is going in the right direction for sure, but it is not like I decided to put on a show and then tomorrow I can watch it.

Holly: Well, just because we do the transformation work, it doesn’t guarantee that we are going to make the money because we also have to take the practical action steps…

Joanna: There is an action piece, right?

Holly: And oftentimes the money work that we have to do in terms of mindset and energy and transformation, is so much deeper and bigger than we think when we first approach it.

Joanna: It relates to what we were saying before Holly about it being not actually about the money, but it is about your whole relationship with the universe. You think money seems like an easy thing to heal, but if you stop talking about money and started talking about your relationship with the universe, it would be very apparent from the very start that it’s a big thing.

Holly: Yes, it is a big thing.

Joanna: There are a lot of layers, a lot of things to understand, a lot of stuff.

Holly: It triggers a lot of stuff that unless you are deep into this transformation work you might not realise is related to money, like: I am enough. Self esteem, self-worth, value, visibility, it is like it triggers this cascade of all these other beliefs.

Joanna: Yeah, and I think that part of it is that you have to be okay with that. I had a client say the other day, I just want to be done with it, the whole money thing, I just want it to be solved. And I actually don’t think that’s how it works at all.

Holly: I don’t either, but I understand how that’s really appealing.

Joanna: For sure, I would love for that to be true, you can reach a place in your life with your work and your transformation, whatever, where you are a lot more secure and money streams are a lot more secure, you are a lot more flowing and you are in a totally different space, but I wouldn’t think that it is ‘solved’, it is not a thing to solve. That implies that there is a small issue and if you just do one thing then it will be solved, and everything will be magically okay, that’s not it and I think that because it is not about money it about your relationship with the universe, it is kind of an ongoing process. And I think it goes on beyond this lifetime, it is not even something stops when you die, although there is no money presumably on the other side!

Both: {laughing}

Joanna: Since it is all energy it doesn’t matter what we call it.

Holly: Exactly, it is just something else.

Joanna: I wonder if we are making any sense?

Holly: I think we are and I think that people who are into the transformation and energy work arena can understand this. So, let’s get back to the practical stuff, so we have talked about money manifesting, so law of attraction and manifesting, there are some people that really love the concept and lots of people just think it is utter BS. So, can you create money out of thin air? Is this possible? How does this manifesting work?

Joanna: {laughing} That’s a whole other episode!

Holly: {laughing}

Joanna: Let’s do our next one on that.

Holly: All right.

Joanna: But can you…? I don’t know, I know what my answer is…can you create money out of thin air?

Holly: I mean, in theory I think it is possible but in reality, yeah, I guess that I believe that anything is possible. Oh, this is so…!

Joanna: I definitely think that you can create money out of thin air, because I have done it, so I know that it is possible.

Holly: So, give us examples, what does this look like in real life?

Joanna: You have heard me tell the story as well, but I will just repeat it. It is useful here, but you can create money out of thin air. And the way that it happened for me, it started with intention, so you have to intend what you want and spend time aligning that with the feeling of what you want. So, what I wanted was to pay for our new car with cash; and every single day I would sit down, I would imagine myself going to the car dealership and handing over a suitcase of cash. {Both laughing} because that’s what it looked like in my head to pay for it with cash. Every day I would do that. And so, some opportunities came our way. It is not just going to land on your doorstep, although I amino going to discount that either, if it wants to land on my doorstep out of thin air, then fine. I remember saying to my husband: wouldn’t it be great if we started finding random money by our gate? And then once he came in and he said: I just found some money. And I started jumping up and down like a crazy person. {Both: laughing} It hasn’t happened since then. For me that was out of thin air.

Holly: Out of thin air, but you put in the work every day. So, it wasn’t like you just one time said: Universe send me money out of thin air. You were putting in the time, you were putting in the work.

Joanna: It is that time and that work, and the second piece is saying yes to opportunities, because what happened then is my husband came to me and wanted to bet on Brexit.

Holly: Oh right.

Joanna: This is the story. And I was like: gambling, really? That’s not a think that normal intelligent people do {laughing} and I just remember thinking: I have been setting this intention for money out of thin air, this could be the answer. And so, saying yes to these opportunities even if you have judgement of them, even if your first reaction is to say: come on, that’s not something that I want to do. Being willing to say yes, because we said yes, and for better, or for worse, we won money on Brexit and let me tell you I am against Brexit, pro-EU, against Brexit, so it kind of made it sweeter that day, you know? {laughing}

Holly: Yeah, exactly, the pain was a bit less!

Joanna: Indeed, and that was really out of thin air, that was money out of nothing. So, yeah, I think you can create money out of thin air if you find out for yourself how that energy piece work and you spend aligning with what you want. And I will say this, because this, because this is coming to me right now, I have manifested some pretty amazing, miraculous things, money and not money. I was thinking about this recently, the thread is that in each case I decided when it was going to be, so I refused to think about the opposite happening, but I thought about it enough that I said: if it doesn’t happen it’s okay. So, I wasn’t desperate, so I know that if I didn’t create the money for the car we could get a loan. I was taking exams, very, very difficult exams for a particular job that I wanted; okay, if I didn’t pass them, of course I will get another job. I did the same thing, I had IVF to have my son, so okay, I knew that there was a chance that it wouldn’t work but I refused to entertain it, I know that I would be okay, somehow, if it didn’t work. I just didn’t entertain and before I knew manifesting or law of attraction exited I remember that if the thought of: what if I don’t pass my exam? Kind of entered my head then I would say: no, of course I am going to pass my exam. And I would imagine myself calling my other and telling her that I passed. This is before any of my reading or learning so it is that thread of just deciding this is the way that it is going to be which is why questions like: why isn’t working are a dangerous place to put yourself in.

Holly: So, it is all about focussing on what you do want rather than what you don’t want, which is what we do when we are working with clients. When I am working with clients, whether it is with heart-centred-energy work or PSYCH-K, oftentimes people will talk about what they don’t want; and I always have to help them flip it on the head and say: what would you rather have instead? Like, if you don’t have this problem, what do you have?

Joanna: And I have to say I love how you do that Holly! I find it really difficult, and it is one of the reasons why I like to have sessions with you because sometimes it is really difficult by myself to clarify what I want, and you make me go deeper over that and make it more specific, that’s super valuable. But, it is our natural tendency to talk about how things are going well and what’s not working.

Holly: Yeah, and I think different people have different motivations. They say some people are motivated by going towards what they do want, but a lot of us are motivated by running away from what we don’t want.

Joanna: Really?

Holly: Yeah.

Joanna: And I guess that’s been reflected in online marketing techniques and stuff, right? So, you are either…

Holly: Dig up the pain… {laughing}

Joanna: Now I understand more why I don’t like those things I don’t like doing those things because I am actually motivated by being the better version of myself rather than running away from what I don’t want. So, can you create money out of thin air? Yes, I think – in my experience – you can with the right energy and steps, right?

Holly: And, again, doing the work that you need to take.

Joanna: The transformation work, I think that’s a big piece of it, if we are working on money or anything else, it is just energy at the end of the day. So, if you focus on that on the flow of energy, or think of it as energy which means, maybe we can talk about this now, like saving. Because the energy needs to flow, you can’t like hoard it, it has got to flow and yet we are encouraged to hoard it, to save it, to not overspend, whatever that is. How do you feel about that?

Holly: I get it, I get that energy needs to flow but I kind of feel like some of it can flow into my savings account {laughing}

Joanna: I love that yeah. I think some of it can flow into my savings account as well.

Holly: It feels good to have savings and there have been times in my life when I have had savings and there have been times in my life when I haven’t had savings and for me particularly it feels very disconcerting, very uncomfortable, not to have that kind of safety net. Again, this goes back into trusting in the universe, how much are we meant to trust and how much are we meant to be practical and have some damn savings in the ban account?

Joanna: Yeah, I struggle with this as well. I actually really struggle with the law of attraction in some places, because the law of attraction advice says that you shouldn’t focus on saving because then you are not trusting the universe to provide. I also, for me, I think the highest priority needs to be that you feel good, so I feel good, like you Holly, I feel good when I have savings. Because I didn’t have any and I had a very troubled youth let’s say, good childhood, troubled youth… I was very poor and all sorts of things, and it is something that makes me feel like accomplished and successful, secure, it makes me feel really good. It makes me want to go in my bank accounts.

Holly: And look at them. {laughing}

Joanna: And I like that feeling, so, I don’t actually agree with the law of attraction stuff saying that you shouldn’t focus so much on saving, I think you should get clear on what makes you feel good.

Holly: Yeah, and in every aspect of money, what is it that makes you feel good about money, is it the saving, is it the investing, is it having lots of money flowing in and flowing out. It is going to be different for everyone and that’s why we all need to spend some time getting clear on what we want.

Joanna: Indeed, and that’s part of the action piece, I think. Not just working on the energy side of money, but working with money in the real world, as well, and knowing where it is going and, yeah, just being in control of it, right? Because I spent way too many years like never looking at my bank accounts and being scared to open the bills and things. It was a really, really, dark time in my life. That didn’t feel good. I feel like it is much better for me to know what’s going on even if it is not exactly what I want. So, I know where I am starting, and I know where I want to go next.

Holly: And what you need to do about it.

Joanna: Yeah. I mean, I think gosh that’s another topic, right? What you need to do about it? You don’t always know, do you?

Holly: No, you don’t. There was a time when the money situation stressed me out so much that my husband was just like: forget about bank accounts, I am going to take control of this, I can deal with it, you just forget about it for a while, because it is not doing you well. Like, now, we both talk about it and deal with it, and it is a partnership with the money, but for a while, for a good couple of years at least, he had to take control of it and be the one to pay the bills and set up the direct debits and all that, because it was just stressing me out so much it was just not doing me well. So, he had to deal with it for a while.

Joanna: Yeah, and that’s probably where you did a lot of your energy stuff so that you were then able to handle the earthly side of money better, right?

Holly: Yeah, I think that was actually before I got into doing all the mindset work, because once I started doing the mindset work that gave me the confidence, and kind of the stability, to be able to take on the money again and look at it and be like: okay, let’s deal with this stuff; because, before, it was just too distressing.

Joanna: Yeah, I think the energy work does play a part with the trust, right? So, you see your bank account doesn’t have as much as you would like, you don’t really know what to do, but maybe you can trust that the right opportunity will come your way, or that the universe will provide an idea, you don’t always have to trust that the universe will send you a cheque in the mail.

Holly: Exactly. And it is also about trusting in yourself, and your ability to create money, to create opportunities for money to flow into your life, retain money, to save it to pay your bills, to be a responsible money handler.

Joanna: Yeah, that’s something that I worked on for ages, is to be responsible with money, because when I was younger I was extremely irresponsible. Extremely. That’s a story for another time.

Holly: I had a very different journey; so, I was extremely responsible with money, up until I started my first business, with my ex-business partner, who was not at all responsible with money. So, we had this wildly successful business, we were bringing in multiple seven figures, but our expenses were just insane. We weren’t paying ourselves, we weren’t taking a salary out of the business, we were just grabbing bits of money, when we could, and it was just chaos. It was just massive amounts of money flowing in, but flowing out as fast as it came in, it was totally disorganised and that messed me up, that was ten years of just bad money management and I fell like I have spent the next ten years – or the last ten years of my life – recovering that and healing from that and regaining that sense of responsible money handling that I had in the first bit of my life.

Joanna: That brings up, not only the responsibility, but also the question of lifestyle, that you touch on as well, the relationship between that. It just illustrates that it is just really, really, not just about the money. What’s the point of bringing in over seven figures if you are not enjoying it, if you don’t have time, if you are not actually keeping any of it. It is not actually funding the lifestyle that you want to live, right?

Holly: Exactly, my lifestyle was shit; because it was a hospitality-based business when we travelled we always stayed at nice hotels, but we stayed at nice hotels, because it was research for our own hotels; so, it was all still related back to the business, so there was never, or very rarely, that sense of relaxation and holiday and rest and recovery and recharge. It was just: work, work, work, work and it was an awful lifestyle. I always, when I am working with people, say: how much money do you want to be making, but what kind of lifestyle do you want to have? And I mention this in my books, as well. Do you want to be working 18-hour days and making multiple 7 figures like I did, or do you want to have more freedom, do you want to have more flexibility? What’s more important for you? How do you want to be bringing this money in?

Joanna: Yeah, and then being willing to do the things, to explore the options of making that amount of money in a different way maybe or making those decisions that support the lifestyle that you want. That was a recent message that I got, actually, through one of the mandalas that I did. I do a lot of mandala work for myself and in the soul space and one of the mandalas that I did, it was very clear that the message was about my business, but it was very clear that my family should be in the centre – for me to get the success that I want my family needed to be in the centre of all my business decisions. So, basically, if a business decision wasn’t supporting my family and the way that I would like our lifestyle to be, which is really me being at home with my son all the time, that’s basically what it is, then it is not the right decision. Which means, with me doing one-to-one calls five days a week, is not the right decision, because if my son is sick that’s not possible.

Holly: Exactly and I think a lot of women that have families and children, have at some point come to that realisation, especially when they have had an unwell child that has completely thrown their schedule off course, and they have been like: right, I need more freedom and flexibility in my life. I can’t just be filling up my calendar with client sessions.

Joanna: Yeah, and I think it is a decision then, because then you need to find other ways of bringing in that income, right?

Holly: Exactly.

Joanna: With lifestyle being the central theme, rather than just bringing in more money no matter what.

Holly: Exactly, and that leads me to something that we were talking about before, a lot of times we get attached from where the money is coming from. Does it really matter? And I think it does in some ways and doesn’t in other ways. Okay so let’s talk about that. So, does it really matter where the money is coming from?

Joanna: I find this really hard, because all of us who have businesses, want the money to one from the business. I think it is because we have attached so many things, so many beliefs, to that. So, if the business is successful what does that mean about you; and if the business is unsuccessful what does that mean about you? But, in fact, if we lead with lifestyle then it shouldn’t matter.

Holly: Exactly, because ultimately this is all about having the lifestyle that we want, because otherwise what do we want the money for? Do we want to pile up rooms full of gold coins? No, we don’t!

Joanna: I’d quite like to do that Holly! {laughing}

Holly: {laughing} Okay, all right.

Joanna: Wouldn’t that be quite fun, to pile up rooms of gold coins.

Holly: It would be fun! But, most of us want the money to do something with it, which is to have the kind of lifestyle we want, whether it is to go on holidays, to travel, to have the amazing stuff with our family; we want to use the money to spend it on experiences, and these experiences are what make up our lifestyle. So…

Joanna: Yeah, and I think that it’s hard to disassociate the money from the business, and maybe part of it is consistency, because if money comes in from various other sources, from betting on Brexit, from tax returns, and whatever else, that’s not consistent at all. That’s not something you can count on, that’s windfall in the end. So, maybe that’s part of it, is that consistency.

Holly: I think it is. Like you said we wrap up a lot of our self worth into the money coming from our businesses.

Joanna: I think that’s a conversation that we should have as well Holly, because I think there is a lot of deeper stuff in there too, about what we make things mean.

Holly: Exactly, and another good example is in, I have had this conversation with you so many times, as I have mentioned on my own podcast I think before, or in my Facebook group, I am owed money from my first business partner. And occasionally I get payments, occasionally the money comes in, but it is again not on a regular basis as it is supposed to be. I have a lot of attachment to getting that money that I am owed, when really what I want is the money. I mean yes, I want that feeling of justice that I get what I am owed but I really just want the money so that I can have the freedoms and lifestyle that I want.

Joanna: But, because your life has turned out in a certain way, because you have decided consciously or whatever, that the easiest way and the only way is for that money to come from that particular source, and I think that’s where we get ourselves into a bit of trouble and kind of lose belief in the magic of the universe. The money can actually come from so many different sources.

Holly: Exactly, but a lot of us are closed to that, because we don’t want the money to come from certain places, or because we aren’t even aware of all the different avenues that money could come to us. It is like you talked about the Brexit thing, if you had said: betting is bad, I am not going to bet, Brexit is bad, I am sure as hell not going to bet on Brexit, you would have closed yourself down to that money avenue. And I think it is interesting, that story, because my husband does something similar, he bets a little bit of money every once in a while, on sports stuff and he will always bet on the team that he wants to lose; so, he never bets on his team that he wants to win, because it is like his consolation prize if his team loses, then at least he makes some money. {laughing} And obviously he does it strategically based on teams are likely to win, but that’s kind of the way he plays that game.

Joanna: Yeah, I think you have to find your way with that, with what feels good, I would never bet myself, because I just wouldn’t, I would probably just bet too much, and I would probably lose, I am just not cut out for it, whereas my husband makes decisions from a totally different place. He is not as attached to the outcome as much as I would be, so it works better.

Holly: Yeah, it is more like a game to them I think.

Joanna: At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter, right? Where the money…

Holly: Well, I was going to agree with you but then I thought, yes but, I don’t want to get involved in drug trafficking, or doing horrible things for money, so like barring things that totally unethical for us, it doesn’t matter.

Joanna: This is the thing though, this is what we said at the beginning, and this is what I repeat all the time to everybody, is that the highest priority is that you feel good. So obviously those things that you mention they don’t fall into that category, they wouldn’t make you feel good.

Holly: Right.

Joanna: But, if you lead with your lifestyle, and focus on living the life that you want to live, every single day, in a small part, if you are in a situation where you can’t spend as much time as you would like on the things that you love then spend a little bit of time; that’s still better than noting and bringing in a piece of what you want to enter your daily existence, for me it has always been the answer.

Holly: Even if that is five or ten minutes of visualising that lifestyle that you want. That’s super powerful.

Joanna: Really, I spent – it doesn’t have to be long either – for my car, I think we decided to buy it I think in May, and we had to make the payment in September, or something like that.

Holly: Okay, and so how much time did you spend each day doing the work?

Joanna: That was just one paragraph, that was literally I don’t know a minute, two minutes. I have lots of intentions for lots of different things so in total I would spend maybe five or ten; but it would be one paragraph on that particular thing, where I actually say the words out loud: we pay for our car in cash and it feels so great…whatever it was.

Holly: And you visualise the briefcase.

Joanna: I can still myself giving him the suitcase of cash, which is obviously not we did it in really life {laughing}

Holly: {laughing} So the reality doesn’t have to match up with the visualisation, but that’s just your mind’s way of triggering that feeling of the experience.

Joanna: Yeah, and for me, it just felt so joyful and so magical and so delightful to be able to hand in a suitcase, open up a suitcase and it is filled with bills. Yeah, I mean other ways coming up now, to reiterate, was that I had to make peace with getting a loan. I had to be okay with the alternative, so it wasn’t like this desperate thing; like: if this doesn’t work then I…

Holly: And there are no other options.

Joanna: And there are no other options and we don’t have a car and we are poor forever, none of that story stuff that we tend to do. I had to be like: okay, if we have to get a loan, we get a loan and we will pay it off and it is actually not a big deal. So, that piece…

Holly: So, for people who are listening to this, if they are thinking: oh, this is all fantastic, but what the hell do I do with this, what are some practical action steps that people can take today, and moving forward, to start shifting their money crap?

Joanna: {laughing} Book a session with Holly!

Holly: {laughing}

Joanna: That’s where I started, you know. Journalling, and it sounds really…oversimplified, maybe, but you need to know where you are now, and where you want to go. That’s really, this is the basis of everything and then you can brainstorm about how you… or have a session with Holly to transform the stuff, or if you have other ways of transforming the stuff, at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter.

Holly: Yeah, how you do it, and do you have your own tools that you could be doing? Because in the same way that people have sessions with me, and I have sessions with other people, I do a ton of work with myself, as well. So, what can you do with yourself? You can do journalling, you can do visualisation, you can do guided meditations.

Joanna: You could do EFT, you could do affirmations, whatever you think works for you and if you don’t think it is going deep enough, or you feel like it is not creating the transformation, then hire someone to help you.

Holly: And try different things. So, a lot of people really resist gratitude work, okay do something else.

Joanna: Yeah, I can’t stand gratitude work.

Holly: {laughing}

Joanna: I am just like: I am one of those people and now everybody knows! {laughing}

Holly: And I think that’s important because it is quite possible that there are some people out there listening to this who think: Joanna, doesn’t like gratitude work! And they are shocked by that, but it is because you have other tools that work better for you that you enjoy doing. If you hate using the tool it is not going to work for you.

Joanna: Again, the highest priority is that you feel good. If the tool is not making you feel good, if all you can think about is that this isn’t working, or this is boring, or whatever, or I want to be doing something else with my time, then it is the wrong thing.

Holly: Exactly.

Joanna: So, I don’t think we can actually give the listeners a formula for how to shift your stuff right now, it kind of depends where you are, and where you want to go.

Holly: I think it starts with that, it starts with you the listener, and us, getting clear on where you are, and where you want to be. Clarity. Getting that clear vision of where you want to be, what is your ideal lifestyle and what kind of money does it take to create that lifestyle?

Joanna: And you need to be very honest with yourself about that because it is very easy to just buy into all the online stuff and I want to have a fully booked business with this many clients a month, and that might not be what you actually want. It took me years to actually realise this, because many years ago, I was called to create a membership community, and everyone was like: you can’t because you don’t have an audience yet, and all this stuff. And I was like, well it just feels like the right, fun, thing to do and I ran it for like four people for two years. It was just kind of there and it is only now that I realise that I had to let go of all the other stuff and focus on building that community, because that’s the kind of lifestyle I want, what I want is to go in there, this is the way I want my life to be, to take like an hour, maybe an our and a half, two hours, every single day. Go in there, pull cards for people, answer questions and channel messages and hold group calls and all that kind of thing and then the rest of the time I can be writing and creating and not on one-to-one calls. So, this is a huge, huge, huge, thing for me and it really required me to be super honest with myself I found this process really, really, difficult to let go of that business model that everybody is using.

Holly: Yes. And conversely, I love one-to-one calls, but I also don’t want to fill up my calendar with one-to-one calls. I want to be focussing on my writing, so I want to have limited time for one-to-one calls and really enjoy the people that I work with like that. So, I think that it is about not following someone else’s formula, but it can be useful to look at other people’s formula, look at how they run their businesses and look at their offerings and feel into: is that right for me? Do I want to be running membership programs, do I want to be running mastermind programs, do I want to be running one-to-one sessions, do I want to be running online programs, do I want to be creating passive income products? Look at all the different things that people are doing but don’t buy into any one’s formula, feel into what’s right for you and sometimes it takes trying on other peoples hats and being like: oh God that is not what I want in my life.

Joanna: and just to link it back to money, we went off on a tangent there, it is really starting with that lifestyle, being clear on what you want your days to look like. And not leading with just making more money.

Holly: And what does success look like for you, because as you said, everybody is selling their blueprint on how to be successful and how to make money, but you have got to figure out what you want and what does success look like and feel like for you?

Joanna: And that will lead to the money coming in, right? Because it has to and then everything is alright. My goodness I think we are done. I think my brain is now fried.

Holly: Okay! {laughing}

Joanna: Trying to think too much and analyse what is going on here.

Holly: So, to wrap things up, I think we have given people a lot to think about, a lot to do, a lot of things to try, a lot of things to focus on, a lot of things to get clarity on.

Joanna: If anybody has any questions then please feel free to email, I am [email protected] or just PM on Facebook, I don’t mind, and I love having these conversations. If anything here stands out. And I think Holly is the same?

Holly: Exactly: [email protected] and I am also on Facebook, I have got an open free Facebook group, as do you. We will link to these in the show notes.

Joanna: Yeah, ask the questions and get the stuff going and challenge yourself to go a little bit deeper with the money thing and, ‘how do I manifest for X’?

Holly: Exactly and I think if I would like people to take one thing away from this episode, it is looking at the deeper side of money transformation work and how it is just a symptom of transforming other stuff that is underneath the water, underneath the iceberg, getting to do the deeper stuff and that is going to transform the symptom which is the money.

Joanna: I agree, if there is one thing to remember, especially if you find that all the manifesting more money, programs, books etc aren’t actually working for you and you are not getting rich.

Holly: And that’s what you want is to be rich.

Joanna: And that’s what you want. Then I encourage you to look deeper, look beyond that surface level of manifesting of the way that most people talk about the law of attraction.

Holly: Exactly. Yay. Well thank you very much for listening.

Joanna: Yes, and we will see you soon.

Holly: Have a good day.

Holly: So, I hope you enjoyed that episode, please drop me a line and let let me know what you thought, you can email me at: [email protected] or find me on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter and get in touch. I would also love for you to join me in my private Facebook group, which we mentioned on the show, you can go to https://www.hollyworton.com/group and you will be redirected you to the Facebook group, and I would love to see have you in there and we can talk about business mindset and all that good stuff.

Finally, whether you have listening to this show for a while or whether you have just heard your first episode, if you are interested, or you feel drawn to learning more about mindset work, and you would like to learn more about how you can work with me, please head over to http://HollyWorton.com/call and you can book in a call with me to learn more. Thank you so much for listening, if you enjoyed this episode please leave a quick review on iTunes it would mean the world to me.

Remember to visit hollyworton.com/248 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you so much for listening and have a great day.