BMP187 Maggie Patterson ~ How to Build A Successful Business From Referrals

Today’s Guest

About Maggie Patterson

Listen to this episode

What You’ll Learn

• How to reach out to people to get client referrals
• How to know whether you need to offer an incentive to encourage people to refer clients to you
• Whether you need to make a phone call, send an email, or some other form of communication to reach out to people
• The mindset you need to get great referrals
• How to keep your network warm (and what that means)
• How to set up a system that keeps referrals coming in

Things We Discussed

• Maggie’s Marketing Moxie podcast 
• Contactually

Inspiring Women

• Natalie MacNeil 
• Kathryn Smith 
• Jules Taggart 

Connect with Maggie

• Website
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Pinterest
• Opt-in

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• [SHP 20] How to Build a Successful Coaching Practice, with Sonia Gill
• [SHP 17] How to Build a Thriving Therapy Business, with Peggy Guglielmino

Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

How to Build a Successful Business from Referrals With Maggie Patterson

HW:     Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 187. This is your host Holly Worton, and I am here with today’s special guest, Maggie Paterson. Maggie is a communications strategist and Chief Marketing Officer at Scoop Industries, with 15 plus years of experience, eleven of which as a self-employed consultant. Maggie has spent her entire career working in client-faced roles in marketing, and as a copywriter. Today, she works with service-based business owners to help them implement smart strategies for business growth. And, today, I am so excited, we are going to be talking about how to build your business based on referrals and introductions; because this is something that Maggie is super-expert in, because for the first eight years of her business, she had no website and relied 100% on referrals. So, that’s so impressive. Welcome Maggie!

MP:      Thank you so much Holly, it’s one of those things I love to talk about referrals, when you said you you wanted to talk about that, I was like “YES, let’s do it”.

HW:     [Laughing] Excellent. So, why don’t you start out by telling us a little bit about your background and your business journey and how you got to where you are today.

MP:      I followed a fairly typical path, I did all the things that you are supposed to do, but I always had that entrepreneurial spirit from a really young age: I started a business when I was eight years old for wagon rides, it was a wagon-throw ride: I would put people in a wagon at the top of a hill in our neighbourhood, then I would push them down, [HW: laughing] problem being that it was into semi-oncoming traffic…[HW: Laughing]. It was shut down very quickly! My sister and I were put out of business…but I have always been that kid who was trying to start things. So, even when you know I went to college and then I went into a peer agency job, I always had in the back of my head “I am going to do my own thing” and, I just know that that was the way to go. And when I had my son twelve plus years ago, I took that as an opportunity while I was on maternity leave to say: “okay, this is a natural time to make a leap”; because I kind of had this feeling that if I didn’t do it then, when I had that natural break in the busy-ness, I was on such a career trajectory that I just wasn’t going to stop. They were like: “what do you mean you are going to quit, you are going to be VP soon.” I was like: “no, I’m not, see-ya.” [HW: Laughing]

So, I had to say no to some…I really loved my job, I loved my clients, but I knew there was something bigger and better for me. So, basically, I hung out my shingle, because of referrals, because of having a really good network and cultivating strong relationships in my years as a professional, I was able to build a consulting business, rather quickly, without any fancy internet things to back me up.

HW:     Impressive! So, how was it, did you just not even think about building a website because you were so busy with referral clients, or how did that happen?

MP:      You know, it was so funny, like given that my background was in marketing and communications [HW: exactly!] I mean I write website copy, I now work with designers every day on the site, it seems funny that I didn’t do it. The reality was I knew that my clients didn’t need that piece of the marketing puzzle to trust me as an expert. I relied really, really heavily on LinkedIn, as kind of my version of a website, you know, this is the thing, I think that at that time, you could really get away with it; I think now, we don’t need as fancy of a website, get started with a really simple basic website, that just kind of covers, ticks the boxes and says you exist on the Internet, vs spending six months creating this master thing, it’s like, you know what, you haven’t even had a client yet, slow your role people!

HW:     Yeah, I was just talking to a friend the other day who is actually an author, and I forget how much he said he spent on a website, this was a new author, basic website, it was like 25,000, and I was like: ‘what does your website do, that you spend so much on it? Oh my god!’

MP:      Hey for $15.95 we could have got you started on Square Space!

HW:     [Laughing] Yeah, it is amazing. So, tell me about how you built this business based on referrals, so you obviously had clients you had been working with over the years, people who knew you, you had, your testimonials, you had people who were happy with your work, how was that transition from full-time employment, to working freelance in your own business?

MP:     So this is honestly, I use the most basic thing, and what I love about this is that everyone can do this: do really good work and protect your reputation. And from there, I mean if you are a professional, it becomes very simple for you to let people know that you are starting to do your own thing. So many times, I know I was guilty of this at different points, I see clients guilty of this, we think that we need something way fancier than an email. Sending an email to let people know that you are basically in business, working the contacts you already have, and we have so many more contacts than we realise. I think we are like: “I have got five friends” and it is like: no, think of every old co-worker, every old boss, the old VP of marketing. I went back to my college Communications Professor, which is actually where my first client came from, because he recommended me. So, you know, really having this broader view of like, who are all these people who already know they can trust you, and that want to support you. And that’s really truly where your best clients are going to come from, and it is going to come a lot easier, because you don’t have to convince people in the same way.

HW:     Hmm I love that. And I think that’s, I think a lot of people really underestimate the power of reaching out to just normal people that you know; they don’t have to be necessarily in your industry, they don’t have to be, you know, your ideal client yourself. They just need to know people who might be interested in working with you.

MP:     Exactly and depending on what you do, it doesn’t have to be all the technical details, you don’t have to drown people in it, it is like: ‘hey, I am doing ‘x’ if you know people, or if you can introduce me to people, I would love that. I will take care of the rest for you.’

HW:     Yeah, I love that, I love that. So, how can people start going about getting referrals? I know you said reach out to people that you know, but for people who might think: ‘where do I start with this?’ Where do you start with this? [laughing]

MP:     So, the very first thing is to get really, really clear on what you are going to ask, so, do you have a specific service that you are looking for? Are you a new coach, and you are looking for your first three or four coaching clients? We need to be really clear on what we are going to ask for before we reach out to anyone, because, otherwise, we are going to be a bit discombobulated. And, making that ask or, you know, sharing that suggestion, is going to feel super-awkward, so getting really clear. The other thing I really encourage people to do is to literally sit down with a blank piece of paper and a pen, and go systematically through, okay ‘these are all the people I know’, and then from there coming up with a hotlist of let’s say five to ten people that you reach out to first, that are going to be your biggest champions and your biggest supporters. Then from there, it is really a matter of that 1:1 outreach to say: “hey, you know what? This is what I am doing right now”.

Now, if you haven’t talked to someone in a while, you are probably not going to open with an email that says: ‘hey can you give me a referral?’ [HW: yeah]. But you know, keeping, being a good steward of your relationships and keeping your network warm over time is always going to pay off. So, so when you do want to say: ‘hey you know what, I have an opening for a client.’ That’s when you can do it, because it is organic and natural. [HW: um hmm]. The other thing is too, ultimately, always looking back at your past clients, happy past clients are always going to be willing to share you, you just need to let them know that you want to be shared. Sometimes clients think “oh well, she’s too busy, she doesn’t need clients.” And the reality is, if your favourite client is going to bring you another client, that’s a great kind of client for you to have, so you want that door to always be open.

HW:     Mm and how do you recommend that people reach out to former clients and say: ‘hey, you know…’ do you recommend putting in a referral system, or offering some kind of compensation? Or just saying, ‘hey I am looking for referrals?’ What’s your best tip for that?

MP:     Yeah, and honestly this is going to depend a lot in your industry, for example, as a communications person, it is going to be really weird if I am like: ‘hey I am going to give you x or y’. Whereas I know in a lot of other industries, it is not uncommon for there to be an incentive attached to that. So, you are going to have to feel out what the norm is in your industry, and networks. But, really it comes down to this: you know, making sure that you are delivering that person ongoing value, and then just saying: ‘you know what, I really loved working with you, I have an opening for a client right now, if you know anyone that’s a client or colleague that you can recommend I would be, you know, I would be elated, I would be very grateful for it, thank you so much.’ Like it’s a really simple ask, it doesn’t have to be a long-winded detailed thing. Plant the seed and you never know when that’s going to come back to you.

HW:     Excellent. And do you recommend that people reach out via email, phone, what’s best?

MP:     I think you should look at the communication style of the person you are communicating with, I have definitely people in my network that I know it is always going to be best if we chat on the phone. Whereas if someone was reaching out to me for that, I would be like: ‘oh please don’t all me.’ [Both: laughing]. Please just send me an email, because I process information that way, so, you know, knowing who you are asking and their preferences, and playing to those; you may have a really tight relationship with someone where you are going to do it in a text or a Facebook message. You know, it is going to be different for everyone.

HW:     Yeah, that makes sense; and I think that’s really important; reaching out to them based on their communication preference, not yours. Because I think a lot of people are terrified of picking up the phone and actually phoning someone to ask for help, but if that’s the best way for you to make the connection with someone else, and get the point across to someone else, then you might be missing out by sending them an email, instead of actually calling.

MP:     Yeah, and it is that whole mindset thing, where you have to just push yourself a little bit out of that comfort zone, that’s where the magic happens.

HW:     Exactly, exactly, so, what kind of mindset do you think people need to be in in order to get, or to reach out and make the most effective communications to get referrals.

MP:     You know, I think we need to look at it from the perspective of the person we are asking, and really being of service. We want this to be, you know I always say to our students when we talk about this: ‘let’s make this a win-win’. So, it is not about them giving you something, you have already provided so much value that this is a no-brainer, so, this is why you are not going to go in cold. It might take three months of you being in contact with someone, before you get to a point where this doesn’t feel like you are unbalanced. I mean you really want to think about the idea of reciprocity and how you can be of service to people; and then, from there, be okay with asking. So, getting in the mindset of serving first with expecting nothing in return, I think, is really, really important as a business owner.

HW:     I think that is really, really important as well. Now you mention that you might have to be in touch with someone for a couple of months before you actually make the ask. And, a few minutes ago you also mentioned that is important to keep your network warm over time; so, how would you recommend that people keep their network warm?

MP:     Okay, so, easiest way ever. Use a spreadsheet, use a notebook, use something, like, keep a record of when you talk to people, set up reminders for yourself, we use a system called: Contactually that like, literally shows up in my inbox and says: ‘hey Maggie, you need to reach out to so and so.’ Because, I need that reminder because, like all of us, we are busy, we have got things going on. And the other thing is, to always be thinking about how can you go that extra mile? So, do you know it’s someone’s birthday? Hey ‘thank-you social media’, you can totally creep and find out everyone’s birthday now, send a birthday card, send holiday cards. You know, go that little extra bit, and I always use the example of my friend Sue, who I have been friends with for 25 years: that woman is a machine when it comes to staying in touch with all of her friends, and family, and past network. I mean, she is a master networker and I keep saying to her: ‘we all need to be like Sue’. Sue never forgets a birthday, Sue always like will send an email and check in with you if she hasn’t heard from you for a while, so you know, be like Sue.

HW:     [Laughing] I like that. So, in addition to checking in, saying hi, telling people happy birthday, that kind of thing, what kinds of little things can we do to keep the contact warm and stay in touch; because I think sometimes it can feel really awkward to just send someone an email and be like: “hey, how are you doing?” You know: “Long time no see. Bye”

MP:     Yeah. For sure.

HW:     That’s kind of awkward. Laughing. So, what can people say to make that easier?

MP:     Okay so, some really specific ways to make this actual: #1 send them an idea, and only if it is genuine, “hey, I was thinking about your business; or I was thinking about that thing you mentioned before, like two months ago;” having ideas and being generous with them, I think a lot of times we think: “people have to pay me for that.” Think of it as that little sample, if you can, again be helpful, it is really not going to take you that much effort. Like, yesterday, someone asked me something about proposals, and I was like: “oh, here’s the outline we use for proposals.” That’s something people pay to learn, but you know what, that’s a simple thing I can offer, and actually be helpful; so, finding ways to give out ideas, actually you know, answer questions. The other thing I think too, is finding articles because they are relevant, when you see something that really makes you think, or even if it is like honestly, funny cat video, if that’s up their alley totally okay. [HW: yeah].

The other thing is too I just think also just being a really, really, good steward of your own referrals and if you see opportunities to connect people you know, or that you are trying to stay in touch with people, or keep warm, be a really, really good steward of those relationships to introduce people you know, to make referrals. When you are making referrals, people will associate you with wanting to be referred. It is a natural human instinct, it is called reciprocity, and we are all hardwired to do nice things for those who do nice things for us.

HW:     I love that, I love that. So, how can business owners set up a process, or a system, that keeps the referrals coming in, because this all sounds like, if you are starting from scratch it sounds like a lot of work and where do you start? And how do you keep, like how can you just automate to have a system to keep the referrals coming in?

MP:     So, okay, I love this question. The #1 thing is make sure when you are off-boarding clients, when you are wrapping up with them, that you are asking as part of that off-boarding process for referrals. Again, really simple language of things like: ‘I loved working with you, I am always looking for clients just like you, blah blah blah blah blah, right?’ Just really focus in on making that ask. So many times, off-boarding goes a little something like this: “Nice job. See ya.” [HW: yeah, exactly]. You know you want to create a great experience and you don’t want to botch that opportunity to continue that relationship with them, to have them be your super-fan referring people to you. So, that is honestly the easiest way, making sure you have literally a task, or a process in place, where you do that with every single client that’s a fit. Now, if it is a nightmare client feel free to skip it! [HW: yeah, laughing]. You don’t want more people like that.

And the other thing is literally going back to setting up reminders, you know, very consciously, this is something we do in our business once a quarter, we go through and we are like: “okay, who haven’t we talked to for a while, what old clients do we need to be in touch with?” Like, really being intentional, we literally have scripts that we can take and tweak depending on who on in the team is going to use them. So, you know, spend a little time up front to have some processes or systems whether that is a reminder in your calendar using something like Contactually or creating, you know, a spreadsheet, and the first day of every quarter you go in and look at that.

HW:     Hmm I love that; so tell us more about Contactually you have mentioned that a couple of times now.

MP:     Yeah, super fan right here. So, it is essentially a CRM, there are lots of different CRMs out there, this one is really designed for I would say a service-type business, where you are working in a client facing model; so it lets you set reminders, it lets you bucket your types of contacts, so I have contacts like: “past clients”, “past collaborators”, “current collaborators”. So, you are really able to set it up in a way that you have a unique approach, you can set up templates and it send me an email, every day Monday to Friday, saying: “hey Maggie, this is who you need to be in touch with”. You can also record your last contact, and if you are using Gmail, you can integrate Gmail in there. So, I can look up a contact and literally be like: “hey when was my last communication with Holly”, look that up and I can see our email history right there attached to that contact.

HW:     I love that. [Laughing]

MP:     I do too. Because I find some interesting things once I get someone into Contactually I am like, “oh, totally forgot that we had that conversation”. [Both laughing]

HW:     I love that. Is that something that is reasonably priced for the solopreneur or it is more for small or medium-sized businesses?

MP:     I want to say…we are using a $59 a month version, I think there is a lower-cost version, I think that’s because we have multiple seats. Again, I always look at it as if you get one referral or one new client out of it every couple of months it has totally paid for itself.

HW:     Yeah, I was just going to say, for me, definitely, even if I got like a third of a new client. That would pay for it. [Laughing].

MP:     And I think that this is the type of work that sometimes it feels like it in the beginning, you are like: “oh is this really a great use of my time?”. I can guarantee you this always pays off. It is a longer-term build but it will be worth it, and in terms of ROI (your time invested), it is always going to come back way stronger than other marketing things that are not just as direct, and they are just fluffier and less direct. They are more windy than you want and require extreme patience!

HW:     [Laughing]. All right, I think that’s a really great point that you just made, because I think that a lot of people listening to this might think “oh my god another thing I have to learn to do, another system I have to implement. Another software-thingy-system I have to learn how to use this is going to take me so much time. So how much time do you think you spend, or you recommend a solopreneur spend on this type of communication? Keeping the network warm, and getting referrals through this way?

MP:     Okay, so I am going to get a little fired up right here: we, as solopreneurs, spend a lot of time on busy-work; busy work being, let’s see: marketing things, “how many followers do I have on this?”, or “what fantastical new thing am I going to put on my new website?”. That stuff is great; but if you don’t have clients none of that matters. [HW: yeah]. So, if you are really struggling to figure out “where am I going to fit this networking or referral and marketing into the mix?” Let something else slide for a little bit and work on this. Because, if you need clients consistently, this is the most important thing, because nothing else is going to matter on your road to success if you don’t have enough clients to get you where you want to go.

HW:     Mm I love that, I love that. So, how much time do you think people need to kind of fit into their calendar every week to do this work?

MP:     I mean, honestly, probably an hour or two at the most. [HW: oh, wow okay!] I don’t think this needs to be, especially once you take some time upfront and systematise it, and get clear on: what you are asking, and have some templates, and you know honestly the more you do this the more comfortable you will get with it.

HW:     Exactly, that sounds like a big stretch outside a lot of people’s comfort zones at the beginning, but obviously the more you do that, the easier it gets.

MP:     And honestly, it was funny, I had this conversation with a client last week, and I was like, you know what, you know how when you first starting using WordPress it was really stressful? This is way easier to implement the learning curve here, you already know how to use most things, so, it is just a matter of getting your head wrapped around it. And having that chat with yourself to say “yeah, this is important and I am going to focus on this, because I want clients to come to me in the most organic, natural way possible.”

HW:     Mm {HW: mm} I love that and I think it is really important. So, you have mentioned email templates a couple of times, how many different email templates do you think we need to have set up? What are they for? Are they for different stages of the phases of connection? Tell us more.

MP:     To be honest, this is going to depend on if you are a strong written communicator or not…and in our case, I am a writer. [HW: laughing, exactly]. It is a lot simpler for me; for someone like me, who is a strong written communicator, having a few templates that I can just take and tweak is perfect. If you are the type of person, you struggle a little more with your written communication, I would bullet-out multiple different scenarios, and kind of think them through, so that when it comes time to do it you don’t have that resistance and say: “oh, it is going to be too much work”. If you have five or six templates and one that’s like “sending something of value” another one that is like: “making an introduction”; another one that is: “giving a referral”. Like, just, to have some of those standard things ready to go, so you can take them and customise them in each situation and you don’t have that extra hurdle to go over that gives you the out.

HW:     Hmm yep that makes sense. That makes absolute sense. Excellent! This sounds really, really exciting.

MP:     It is exciting; we actually did with a group of our students last week, we did an entire challenge around this. And what was so fascinating was seeing how fast people got momentum once they got going. Like, booking consults and, you know, having new referrals come in. Like just so many times we are waiting for clients to come to us, and that little bit of positive motion the other way, can really change the course of how we are growing.

HW:     I like it, because this is a really easy step you can take: it is just sending out a few emails or making a few phone calls, which might be a bit more difficult for some people. But, I get the feeling that this could be really, really, powerful once you create that system, and kind of get into the swing of doing this on a regular basis.

MP:     Absolutely, and here is a little perspective I always love to share: my business partner and I we have a fairly healthy business. But on the high-end consulting side of our business, this is like where 80% of our clients still come from; and that’s with a podcast, with a blog, with all the things, you know, we have all the things, but old school is what really, truly works for those higher value clients.

HW:     Ooh that’s a really, really, interesting point. And that makes absolute sense, because obviously they come trusting you, and wanting to sign up at a higher package than someone who, you know, just wants to test the waters.

MP:     Yeah, and the reality is, if I am running the type of business, that those types of clients are running, they are running half-a-million-dollar plus businesses, they are not sitting around looking for blog posts on Pinterest: that’s a very different customer who we serve in a different way. And those clients are very served by online marketing but, for consulting clients, they are typically not served by that type of marketing. So, you have got to understand the behaviour of your people, and if you want higher value clients and you want it to be an easier yes, working your referrals in your network is just a simpler path ahead.

HW:     So how long do you think it can take people, or people can expect to see results from starting this process?

MP:     I feel we should put a * on this: “*results may vary”.

HW:     Laughing [yeah, I know]

MP:     This is going to depend a lot on the strength of your network and how good you have been to date at nurturing your own network, but, definitely start with your existing clients. Now, one thing I will recommend, let’s say you have like three retainers, on-going coaching or retainer clients, whatever the case is; you want to proceed with a little bit of caution, because you don’t want the message to be: “I’m in a push to get so many clients that I am going to be full, and I am going to get sloppy serving you.” So, I like to use language like: “I’ve had a spot open up” or “I’ve just concluded with a client and I would love another one.” You always want to kind of take any of that fear, because there is a tendency sometimes with clients to want to just keep you to themselves, they are like: “I just want to have her in my clutches forever”. So, you want to proceed with a little bit of caution, but I think starting with your existing clients, and then looking at your network. This could be something that could pay dividends in a day, it could be a couple of months but I have never seen it not pay off. [HW: yeah] And it is time well spent, it is like anything it is not going to hurt you and it is not going to cost you a lot to get started.

HW:     Yeah, exactly, unlike Facebook ads or other marketing things that generally have a cost…

MP:     Yes, this is definitely a much lower-risk investment. [laughing]

HW:     I love it. I am super-excited about this, and I feel like I am ready to kind of create a system of my own and I really hope our listeners will also take the leap outside of the comfort zone – or at least a couple of steps – and start implementing this, because I think this sounds really, really powerful.

So, Maggie moving on, I wanted to ask you do you have any women business mentors, or are there any women entrepreneurs who inspire you?

MP:     Oh my gosh, it is such a long list. [Laughing]

HW:     Oh I know! Top 1 or top 2.

MP:   I have had the privilege of knowing Natalie MacNeil from She Takes on the World for the last two years, as my mentor and coach, and she has been instrumental in that. I also find a lot of women outside my industry really, really, inspiring; whether I just heard a podcast interview with the first female NFL coach, I love hearing those stories about women who are breaking boundaries and doing non-traditional things. You know, there is, I am also really, really inspired by my peers. I can think of several of my peers that I look at, who are just doing amazing things that are very small acts, but they make a bigger impact. So, um, one of my absolute most adored people is my friend Jules Taggart who is just blowing up the world one bit at a time, and I absolutely love her and I am privileged to call her my friend – and I am normally not this sappy! [HW: [laughing] It is fun to talk about exciting people!]. Well, Jules is doing things a little bit differently, she is a writer and a communicator like I am, but she is very much focussed on intersectional feminism, and I am learning a ton from her as I figure out how to embrace my diversity in our business, and you know, speak up for what’s right in our business, and all those different things that are really, you know, on my mind right now.

HW:    Mm excellent. So, Maggie, how can our listeners or other entrepreneurs work with you?

MP:     Oh, there are so many ways. [Laughing]

HW:     How can they get started?

MP:     There are two premier ways: so, we have a programme called “double-it” which is where we work with service-based-business-owners in three-month chunks of time, and we will be opening that up in the New Year. And, we also work with more established business owners actually providing services; so, everything we talk about in our business we actually do for clients as well, which keeps us fresh, and on our toes, because we are in the arena. So, we do everything from email marketing to contact marketing. We don’t do traffic, that’s the one thing we will not do, or Facebook ads. [HW: Laughing]. But, we have a fairly robust service offering on that side.

HW:     Excellent, so where can people find you online and learn more about you?

MP:     So, we are at scoopindustries.com and because you are a podcast listener, we do have a show for service-based business owners, called the Inside Scoop Show.

HW:     Great, tell us more about your podcast?

MP:     This is where we get all ranty, and also very specific and actionable [laughing]. You know, the business of working with clients, there’s a lot of information out there: “you want to build passive income and you want to work on the beach” and this is kind of our antidote to [say] “hey this is what it is really like to work with clients and today we are going to talk about the glamorous topic of your business budget, or what happens when a client conversation goes wrong.” We really, the idea of the inside scoop, we definitely are very honest about our struggles, or our challenges, or like what is the reality of working with clients, because it is amazingly rewarding but it is also incredibly challenging.

HW:     Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well thank you so much for joining us today, I absolutely loved the content, I think it is very exciting, I really hope our listeners will take the step and start taking some actions to get referrals, and I think your advice was very, very specific and actionable and I think it is something, we have got enough information that we can get started creating our own system, so thank you so much for that.

MP:       Awesome, so thank you so much for having me Holly.

HW:       And thank you and thank you for listening and remember to visit: hollyworton.com/187 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you.

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