240: Joanna Hennon + Holly: How to Add More Fun and Play to your Business and Life

Today’s Guest

Table of Contents

As you may remember, I’m trying out a new format for 2018 with quarterly co-hosts, and my fabulous co-host for Q1 is Joanna Hennon, who has previously been a guest on the show. You can find her on episodes 86, 158, and 178.

Today, we talk about how to have more fun and play in your business and life. This is something that we’ve both struggled with in the past, in both extremes: finding it difficult to add more fun and play to our lives, and having so much fun and play that we’re afraid we’ll lose the serious stuff. In today’s episode, you’ll learn all about how to make business and life more enjoyable through fun and play.

More About Joanna Hennon

Joanna is a #SoulSmart Success Mentor – she helps people to easily create more success by using the wisdom and power we all have access to at soul level. Living life from a place of soul power, in tune with your higher self and your Guides, and using the Law of Attraction with intention will literally change your life! To get started, grab one of these free resources: http://joannahennon.com/freebies/

Listen to this episode

What You’ll Learn

Why it’s important to have fun and play in our business and life
How to know that you need more fun and play in your business and life
If you’re a fun and playful person, does that mean you’re not a serious business owner?
What does fun even mean? How do you know if something is play?
How YOU define what play means for yourself (there’s no one definition)
Does everything in business and life have to feel like fun?
The question you need to ask yourself when business and life are feeling heavy and hard
What to do when fun is difficult
What to do if you’re not actually enjoying the fun or play
What to do if you’re feeling guilty about all the fun and play
How to make space for fun and play in your business and life
What to do if you’re afraid the fun will take over your life and you’ll quit your business

Things We Discussed

Connect with Joanna

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Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

Holly: Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 240. This is your host Holly Worton and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Joanna Hennon. I am really excited to share this episode with you because I think it’s a good one. As you may remember I am trying out a new format for 2018 with quarterly co-hosts and Joanna Hennon is my fabulous co-host for quarter one. And, she has also previously been a guest on this show, you can find her on episodes 86, 158 and 178, and if you missed our first co-hosted episode together you can find that on episode 235, where we talk about how to balance intuition and structure, just such a fun topic.

So, today we are talking about how to have more fun and play in your business and life. This is something that we have both struggled with in the past in both extremes, both finding it difficult to add more fun and play to our lives, and also times when we have had so much fun and play that we are afraid we will lose the serious stuff, like the business.

So, in today’s episode you are going to learn all about how to make business and life more enjoyable through fun and play. Here’s what you are going to learn, we are going to talk about:

Why it’s important to have fun and play in our business and life.

How to know that you need more fun and play in your business and life.
We are going to discuss if you are a playful and fun person, does that mean that you are also not a serious business owner? Like, can you be serious and have fun?
What does fun even mean, how do you know if something is playful? How do you define what play means or what fun means for yourself, because there is no one definition?
We ask the question: does everything in business and life have to feel like fun, or can some things just be serious?
Joanna shares the question that you need to ask yourself when business and life are feeling heavy and hard.
We talk about what to do when fun is difficult.
What to do if you are not actually enjoying the fun or play.
What do to if you are feeling guilty about having fun or play.
We also talk about how to make space for fun and play in your business and life;
and
What you to do if you are afraid that the fun is actually going to take over your life and you will lose your business or quit your business, because you just want to have fun, because that’s a valid concern as well. You don’t want to necessarily have one extreme or the other, so we talk about how to find this happy medium in today’s episode. And I think this is really, really important topic, because I think a lot of people don’t talk about it. They talk so much about how: ‘you have got to hustle, you have got to work hard’, but we don’t often talk about the other side of business which is fun and play, which has a very valid place.

So, without further ado, I am going to stop talking now and I am going to get into the episode which is a really nice and juicy one, so thank you very much and happy listening.

Holly: Hey Joanna!

Joanna: Hey Holly!

Holly: I am so excited about our topic today!

Joanna: I always love talking to you!

Holly: {laughing} So, today we are talking about: how to have more fun and play in business and life. I am really excited to talk about this because this is something that has been a challenge for me and I think you are the perfect person to have this conversation with.

Joanna: Because it has been a challenge for me as well, right?

Holly: Yes, exactly {laughing} But still, I think of you as being a fun and playful person.

Joanna: I don’t think I have ever been described as fun and playful in my life.

Holly: Really!

Joanna: Yeah…no that’s not true, my clients do tell me that I have a great sense of humour and that I add that, and that’s something I really appreciate. It is true that I somehow add some fun into the spiritual work that we do, but I don’t consider myself very fun. And my husband is very funny, my son is always like: oh yeah, daddy is the fun one, and I am like the strict one, so I have that in my head.

Holly: So, how does that spill over into your client relationships, are you the strict one with your clients?

Joanna: I think you have to be strict to a certain degree, because you want them to get results. I mean it should be fun, I suppose, in a way, but it should also get you the results, so I tend to be I guess a mix, I suppose. What about you, do you have fun in your work with your clients?

Holly: You have to ask my clients, but I laugh a lot in my sessions. I think because we do a lot of really deep stuff, and talk about deep dark crappy crap, I tend to not make light of it but make jokes about it in a way that’s not offensive but helps people to relax so that they can talk about this stuff. I remember one time, I was working with a client, I was visiting my parents, I am locked away in their spare bedroom having a client call and after I came out, my mother said: God, all you do is laugh with your clients. {laughing}

Joanna: Oh my god, people say that about me as well. If anybody is ever in the house they are like: So you weren’t working! And I am like: Yeah, I was, I was with a client. And they are like: Oh, but you were laughing all the time. So, I guess that’s true. When I think about it, when I am the client, I don’t want to work with people who make me feel, who are so strict with me. I actually worked with someone – it is a bit of tangent – but I did work with a coach that I didn’t like, and she was very, very, strict, and I didn’t like it. It was on body image and I swear to God it was like a self-punishment thing, it was like: I have been really horrible with my body, and I had gotten my weight to this horrible weight, and so now I have to work with this horrible person who makes me feel horrible. {laughing}

Holly: Oh wow!

Joanna: I only saw that obviously afterwards, but while I was in it, it just felt like something that I needed to do. But I hated it. I did not enjoy it, it was really, really, a terrible thing to do and now I realise, of course, that if I don’t feel good I just don’t want to do it.

Holly: Yeah, and did you get results from working with that strict coach?

Joanna: I don’t think so, I just didn’t like it. I remember once my life was really busy at the time, and I remember showing up to one of our calls, and I was like: Is it okay if I just finish my banana? And she was like: No. And I was like: But then I am going to be really hungry and I won’t be able to fully be here. She is like: No.

Holly: {laughing} No banana for you Joanna!

Joanna: So yes, I suppose the fun aspect is important in a coaching relationship as well because you want to have a good experience. You want it to be pleasant, in some ways, even if it is tough and you are releasing stuff, you need it to feel good, so you want to do more, right?

Holly: I agree, years and years ago when I was in grad school, I had this therapist and I showed up for a session and sat down and she said: How’re you doing? And I said: Fine, how are you? And she looked at me and she said: I ask the questions. And I was like: Shit, I am just being polite!

Joanna: Oh my god.

Holly: And it traumatised me and then, for years, every therapy session, or whatever I had, working with a professional after that, I created this huge distance, I would never ask them about themselves or anything because I was so worried that someone was going to say to me again: No, I ask the questions, you do not ask questions. {laughing}

Joanna: Oh, my goodness, why do these people become therapists and coaches, I will never know, but okay.

Holly: I know, I know. She was probably just doing her best.

Joanna: This is not actually what we wanted to talk about. It is funny that we started off on…

Holly: But it is totally relevant, because it is related to how we work with our clients, it is related to business and about you know about being fun and playful. So, getting back to the topic: Why is it important to have fun and play in your business and life?

Joanna: Well, I think Holly, in business it is really important just because when we go into business we want to create something different for ourselves, right? And I always think, when I stop having fun in my business I am always like: why I am doing this? I could just go to my job and just have that, why I am making things so difficult, and unenjoyable. What’s the point? If your business doesn’t feel good and it is not fun for you, then what’s the point of even doing it? Get a job.

Holly: And that’s how I have been feeling about my business lately and I know, poor podcast listeners, I have been hinting at this for so long but haven’t really talked about it because I still don’t know what to say. I love my client calls, but I hate every other part of my business, I hate the marketing. So, I’m at that point too, where my business is no longer feeling fun, because the only fun part of my business is the time when I am actually on the call with the client. All the other stuff is like: ugh.

Joanna: That’s the thing, if something doesn’t feel fun at all then you have two choices, right: either you drop it, so you drop the marketing and stuff completely, which might have an effect on how many client calls you get to do. {laughing} We don’t to make assumptions, but it might have an effect… Or you ask: how can I make this more fun? Right? And I think that’s a question I give my clients all the time: How can I make this more fun? How can this feel better? Just being willing to ask that questions about the bits of your business, or life, or whatever, that just aren’t working for you, that aren’t feeling good, I think that is so important. And, what comes up can be just so simple, I remember, I wanted to offer my soul space group something, at the beginning of the year. So, I wanted to have some kind of New Year’s bonus, or New Year’s present or something. I was like: ah, I will do a reading for everyone or something and then that just felt horrible, because I had no time, I had no time to do all these readings! I remember sitting there going okay, to follow my own advice, how can this be fun? The soul space is supposed to be fun, it is my thing. And then I was just like: ah, I will just pull a card for everybody, and I was like: ah, that sounds like fun. I love playing with cards, that is not work at all! And just being willing to ask the question like that, the idea may have always been there, but being willing to see the idea, and to follow that. Like, being willing to have that fun, right? Because we kind of have a tendency to want to make things hard on ourselves and it is like we are wimpy, or something, or we are not worthy of success or something if we allow things to be fun.

Holly: Yeah, yeah, I totally get it. So, how often do you find yourself asking that question: How can I make that more fun? How often does it come into your daily life?

Joanna: At the moment quite often. {laughing} I think I am in a similar space to you where I am going through this big transition, and I am really figuring out what I want my business to look like, and how I can best serve the people I want to serve and all that kind of thing. And, so, I am asking it quite a lot because a lot of things are feeling heavy. So, then I have to kind of keep making that decision of: Am I going to let go of this or am I going to inject some fun, right? Find a different way of doing it. Some things are almost, I think, non-negotiable. Like, you have to do (sorry Holly!) but you have to do some kind of marketing.

Holly: I know, and this is so confusing to me, because marketing has been my thing for years, like decades. I used to love marketing, so that’s why it is so confusing to me that I’m not, so maybe I just need to be asking: how can I make my marketing more fun?

Joanna: Exactly, since I like playing with oracle cards and channeling and all that stuff, when I get really kind of bogged down in the whole marketing strategies, and funnels, and the logical steps of how people find me and decide to work with me and all that, I just let it go. And I end up pulling a card every day, and then talking about that theme. And it doesn’t matter then to me if it fits into a strategy or not, or I will just launch something fun. Like now, I decided yesterday that I’m going to do a whole series of masterclasses called: The Soul Smart Guide to… (all sorts of stuff). I.e. to writing blog posts, or to launching, or even business related, and that just feels really fun to me. So, I don’t care that it has nothing to do with my quarter-one plan, everything else is feeling heavy, and this is feeling fun, so I’m go with it.

Holly: Yeah, so this is a perfect lead into my next question: How do you know when you need more fun and play? Because you have mentioned a couple of times now things feeling heavy. What are the other signs?

Joanna: For me, it is that heaviness around things: urgh I have to do this now, and I don’t want to. That’s a sign, right? Because you want to be in a space where… We have all been in that space in our work, we can’t wait until that next call, or are super-excited to put together the webinar, you remember that, right?

Holly: Yeah, definitely. {laughing}

Joanna: So, you can see when it is not that, when it is that opposite of… have you ever been in a job, then it probably feels a little bit like that Monday morning feeling of: ugh I have to go into work again. If you are creating a business for yourself, instead of working for somebody else, then that’s not a feeling that you want to create with it. So, when you have that feeling, I suggest that you explore, right, and see what’s happening and what’s feeling off so that you can readjust.

Holly: And when you get those, kind of, creative nudges to do something different, like you had said The Soul Smart Guide to…, run with it, allow yourself to run with it, even if it is not in your plan. Just go with it and do it.

Joanna: Yeah, I think that’s the most important, and I know that all logics says that you should plan for things and whatever, but people work in different ways and I am not naturally a planner, I am not very organised, so I have to follow these things otherwise I end up really frustrated and that’s not what I want. So yeah, things just start feeling heavy, and that responsibility just weighs you down then and that doesn’t feel fun at all. How about you, do you feel that heaviness or do you feel something else when it is time to think about…?

Holly: Yeah, just heaviness and reluctance to do it, putting it off and… I time block in my calendar, so if I see myself like dragging something, like today I don’t feel like doing it, it didn’t happen, so I drag it to tomorrow. If tomorrow I don’t do it, I drag it… And when I have dragged something and rescheduled it so many times, I get to the point where I think: okay, do I absolutely need to do this, or can I just delete it? Because clearly it is not a high priority.

Joanna: Actually, that makes me think of another little way that might shift the heaviness to fun is making things more specific, because as you were talking I was imagining you dragging the marketing block over from day to day. And I know that, when I have something like that in my calendar, that I don’t really know what to do with, when it is too big a topic, or too big a task, that hasn’t been broken down then it feels really overwhelming, then I am really more reluctant to tackle it. Because I am like: ‘marketing’, I don’t even know what to market? Is it the call, is it…? I don’t know what to do with that and then I just let it go and then I don’t feel like doing it, whereas if I have something specific like it feels really exciting for me to create a workshop using oracle cards for blogging. Like, I do that myself, I think that’s super fun, but that’s something that’s very, very specific.

Holly: That’s very helpful because one thing that I always do, and it is non-negotiable, is that every Monday morning I spend half-an-hour promoting that week’s podcast. And I have a recurring thing in Asana that comes up and it is not like, in my calendar it just says: promote podcast episode, but in Asana it has ten different steps. So, because I do this every week and I have been doing it every week for 240 some episodes, I know what to do. But, it really helps me to see it broken down into ten steps: check to make sure that the blog post, check to make sure that it is…do this, do that, post here, share it here, share it there, and then I just tick those off and it just comes back into my calendar the following week in Asana. But I have it really broken down into steps, and that helps me to get stuff done that is non-negotiable because one thing that I do love about my business, in addition to the client calls, is the podcast, I love it. So, I am not going to do an episode and then let it sit there.

Joanna: So, I wonder if you could create that kind of Asana task for yourself for calls, right, for client calls, as well, and then just have a whole list. It is really funny that you mentioned this particular example, with the podcast, because just recently I was thinking: How does Holly do that? I never get around to promoting anything to do with the podcast properly. And from you I see things very regularly and you are tagging the people who took part, and you are doing all these things, and I am just like: How does she do this so consistently?

Holly: It is a half-hour every Monday, that’s all it takes.

Joanna: But how cool is that?

Holly: But it is really focused time, I don’t sit down and go: how am I going to promote the podcast? It is step-by-step, I bring up the list, and I say, okay: do that, I do it; do that, I do it; and I just work through the list. And it is not necessarily fun, which is a good question, but it is something that I do, because I love my podcast and I want people to see it.

Joanna: I do think that some things just have to get done, I actually don’t think it is realistic to say that everything in your business will feel fun, and I just don’t think it is realistic to expect that, because you are just setting yourself up for some disappointments. I do think you need to do some marketing around whatever it is that you are providing, and there are ways, though, to make it feel better. And, I really think what I said before about being open to having it feel better if, for you, the way it feels better is to have a list and limit it to just that half-hour on a Monday, then that’s awesome, right? So maybe it doesn’t feel like super fun, but that allows you to have fun with your podcast and create content for people who are actually listening, right?

Holly: Exactly. And I love lists, so I know not everyone is list crazy, but there have been times in my life where I have made lists of lists that I wanted to make, so…

Joanna: It is so funny because obviously we are friends for this reason because I love lists and in fact I just bought a book that’s lists, it is right here, what is it called: Listography it is called, a series and this one is the future one and it is ‘All I hope to do in lists’.

Holly: Oh my god I love it!

Joanna: And they have these for all sorts of topics, on travel, and all sorts of things. I want all of them, but I was just like: okay, I am going to buy one and make those lists.

Holly: Okay, this is going in the show notes! {laughing} I love it and you know I am hopping on Amazon right when we get off this call!

Joanna: And I think I might make a list later today.

Holly: {laughing} Alright, so if lists help you then make a list.

Joanna: That’s the thing, I think that point is actually worth repeating to allow yourself to make it feel good, to make it fun. And if you know, even like I got this question from one of my clients, a couple of years ago: How do you make something that really isn’t fun, like I don’t know, like your accounting. For most people that is not going to be a fun task and yet, you can’t just say: okay well I’m just not going to do that because it is not fun. You have to do it right? You have to do your admin, and you have to do your accounting. So, how do you make it fun? Well to make it fun, maybe make space for it, so it is not like a rushed job before the day ends. Take an afternoon, play some nice music, light some candles, make it like a thing and maybe have a reward afterwards. So, maybe that’s a way to make it feel better and to make it more fun, right?

Holly: Yeah, make it into a ceremony, like today I am doing my bookkeeping and it is like a special occasion.

Joanna: For me it always helps, like for something like that, it always helps if I can just say: That’s all I need to do today. Because otherwise I am distracted, and I am like: I prefer to be doing this, or I prefer to be doing that, but if you are just giving it the space then when you take your breaks you can just hang out and read a book, or whatever, watch an episode of something on Netflix. Rather than going from task to task, and for me that actually always makes it feel better.

Holly: Yeah, and I think it helps when I have something big, is to just time block the entire day like you said to do that one thing. That way, I am really good at focussing on just one thing and I just get it all done, and then know I have enough time to get it done rather than trying I to fit an hour and a half in today, an hour in tomorrow and an hour the following day. It is easier for me to do stuff in big chunks of time.

Joanna: Me too, me too. I am the same, it just feels better. So, one of the things that we touched on, before we started recording, was the issue of if you are playful in your business, or if you show up as fun, then maybe you won’t be taken seriously. Well, how do you feel about that?

Holly: I think that’s a really good question, I think, yes, of course there are going to be people that don’t take you seriously like your coach who was super strict and was like: no bananas for you! But you don’t want to work with those kinds of people, you want to attract clients who are like you, and are vibrating at the same energy level, and you have stuff in common and so if you are fun in your business you are going to attract fun clients. Whereas if you are the ‘no banana’ kind of coach then you are going to attract super serious clients.

Joanna: Yeah, or people who don’t really want to be there, right? Who think, like me, I am doing it as some sort of self-flagellation for past cakes eaten. {laughing} So, I think it is part of this authenticity conversation, right? To have the courage to show up like you are with all your quirks, to let people know the things that you find funny. I think especially now in this crowded, crowded, marketplace, we have to stand out, how else are people going to know: oh, I like her. I think it is difficult because sometimes you want to talk about things that are relevant to your audience, so you want to be talking about your work stuff, and I think sometimes it is difficult to kind of weave the other things in. But you can get really creative, I have seen lots of…I am a huge Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan, huge, huge, huge. And I have seen some really fantastic quotes…’What Buffy can teach you about business’ or ‘What Buffy can teach you about life’, or whatever. I have always thought: Oh, that would be so much fun to write! Of course, I will always read anything like that, that references the show that I really, really am a big fan of. And, so, it is a way to bring in the people who you will have fun with in your business, who will get you.

Holly: Yeah, exactly. I resonate with that, I am a Buffy fan, but I am also a big Star Trek fan, and so whenever I see people referencing Star Trek like on their website or on their blog post, I get excited. I remember this one time coming across this website for a graphic designer and she had put this quote from Sarek the old Vulcan philosopher, and I was like: oh my God, I know who that is! I am so excited. And I didn’t even need this graphic designer, and I never worked with her, but I just felt that connection like: Oh, that’s such a random…

Joanna: Oh my God, I think you have really touched on something here, it is the connection, right? Because how do we connect with other people, it is through these things that we really, really, care about; and yeah, sometimes they are kind of big ideals of changing the world, but if you are talking about business, or even spirituality, it is difficult to connect at that really human level, unless it is over something like that. Something that is important to you, in your daily life, a book, a movie, a show, anything that produces that: Oh my God I love this.

Holly: Exactly – and that’s an element of fun and play – because that’s when you get: oh it is my favourite show and you like it too, that’s fun. It is a connection through fun.

Joanna: Okay, so I have to bring this up now, because this is something that comes up for me all the time. So maybe it is fun, but does it have a point? I don’t know, I have this thing about the importance of everything that you put out there having a point and some kind of value, and I get really stuck in there. I know a lot of people teach to just tell stories about your life, and all this stuff, and I don’t particularly like listening to that. If somebody is just rambling on about the last 20 years of their life, or about how much they like Buffy even. I mean even that, okay probably more likely to listen to that.. {laughing} But I like it to have a point. So, what’s that balance between adding the fun and showing up with that fun side of you…and still providing value.

Holly: I think it depends on how you are showing that side, so if you do an Instagram post of the photograph of the TV screen as you are watching Buffy and you say: I love this show, I have loved it ever since it first came out, do you guys like it too? That’s one thing but writing a thousand-word blog post on how much you love Buffy, maybe that’s not relevant.

Joanna: But a blog post about what Buffy teaches you about business I think would be cool.

Holly: Yes, exactly, exactly and I remember one time watching Star Trek, the original series and Ayala said something, and I stopped the TV went back and listened to it again, and then wrote it down and wrote a blog post about it; because it was related to my social media business at that time. And, yeah, that’s totally relevant. So, if you are inspired by a quote that someone said on a TV show, and it relates back to your business, then yeah by all means write a blog post about it. But if you are just going to write: I love Buffy, because it is so much fun and I hate vampires…{laughing} Who wants to read that?

Joanna: Yeah, it is something that I really struggle with in anybody who teaches: oh you need to share your story, and share your personal stuff and whatever, and I am just like: ugh, what’s the point? I want to add value in everything, I don’t want to just take up space. We have had this conversation before, I don’t just want to add to noise.

Holly: I agree, that’s why I use Instagram mostly for personal stuff, so my Instagram feed is pretty much 90% cats and my nature walks, and then 10% every week when a podcast episode comes out, I put the graphic up, but that’s the only business stuff I put in my Instagram feed, the rest of it is my life, so if you want to see what I am doing outside of the office that’s Instagram.

Joanna: That’s cool, that’s a cool way of separating it, right? So, we have touched on fun and business and kind of the difficulties of fun in life as well. I have really struggled with adding more fun to my life, I have to say, because I don’t find the usual things much fun. If you ask anywhere: what do you for fun? You are going to find a whole list of stuff that I personally don’t find fun. And then so I really struggle with that making sure that I have a balance in my life, because I find intellectual stimulation fun and taking a business course, things that most people would consider work.

Holly: Yeah but the things is that stuff doesn’t necessarily rest your brain. It is still doing more of business stuff.

Joanna: Right. What do you do for fun?

Holly: Well, I spend long hours in nature, walking through the woods, so that is my number one.

Joanna: That’s kind of becoming your work too, so…

Holly: Yeah, not yet, but eventually. It feeds my soul, it is not necessarily fun, it is not like I am skipping through the woods singing lalala, but it just deeply relaxes me and nourishes me and feeds my soul. So, it I not like a party fun, but I love it, it is really important to me. So, I would say the two fun things are walking and reading.

Joanna: Maybe we need to redefine fun then, right?

Holly: Exactly, so what does fun mean?

Joanna: What does fun mean? And I like what they say about it nourishes you, it feeds your soul. It is definitely reading for me as well, both fiction and non-fiction. I always have several books on the go, and if I don’t make time for them then it really takes away from my energy levels for sure. So, definitely reading. But, I wouldn’t say that that was fun, maybe we need to redefine…

Holly: Exactly, what does fun mean to you? So, what does fun mean? Think about reading if you want to redefine reading as fun, then again it is not like you are dancing around your house with a book in your hand, it is something that is deeply nourishing for me, it is something that is relaxing, it is something that gets my mind off the business stuff. It something that helps me, gives me space to let business inspiration come through, because I am thinking about something else. It is playful in the sense that if you are reading fiction you are going off into another world and kind of experiencing someone else’s life, it is almost like kind of mind travel.

Joanna: I think you are right it takes you away from the responsibilities of the day, and all that stuff, and any worries and any stuff; like whereas I don’t get usually that excited when I read, I do get that kind of fun vibe when I watch certain shows. Especially show with ridiculous storylines, really convoluted, or soap opera type, there are times when we finish episodes like that I am like: ah, that is good tv! {laughing} It is like somebody’s twin sister showed up… ‘Ah, that is good tv.’ {laughing} So that is fun to me to watch stuff like that, certainly not intellectual, but it is fun.

Holly: Yeah, you are right, my husband and I do watch tv together every night; and yeah I guess that is fun too, not in the sense that we are like laughing and joyous, but yeah. And we are very selective about what we watch, so we do watch stuff that we really, really, enjoy like we just finished re-watching the old Twin Peaks stuff, and we watched the new one, and then he just went away and before he went away to Argentina, because he is visiting his family, he said: When I come back, can we watch it all again? And I was like: oh good! He was so excited. {laughing}

Joanna: Oh my god I was so jealous when my husband watched Buffy for the first time, and then we watched it twice before I met him, and then we watched it together and I was so jealous that it was his first time to watch it, and now we are waiting until our son is old enough to watch it so we get to watch it again! {laughing}

Holly: And you get to see him experience it for the first time! Okay, so that’s fun! That’s fun, even if it’s not like a party in the house. It is fun, it is enjoyable.

Joanna: It is really about re-defining without judgement; I think it is that, it is a huge thing. Because lots of people judge tv watching, right? As a waste of time and all that sort of thing; whereas I love tv, my husband and I also, we watch tv every night together. And we love it, it is one of our favourite parts of the day, is to sit down and watch a couple of episodes of whatever it is that we are watching. You can allow it to be fun if you release that judgement and you are not like: oh, I should be doing something more productive with my time. I think that is a big part of it, though, because fun is okay and not a waste of time, for those of us who are ambitious and driven, and do-ers, action takers.

Holly: Yeah.

Joanna: I think it is really difficult to do something that doesn’t have a point, that is just for fun.

Holly: I know but I think it does have a point, even though it is a kind of indirect point, in that it rests your brain, it detaches you from the business stuff, and it allows space for you to see stuff come in from a different perspective. So, with TV it helps you disconnect, it puts you in another world, in the same way that books do. So, it really is, it is kind of resting your brain and tuning it into another channel, so that when you come back to your work, you can see it with a different perspective, and you are rested and everything is a bit easier I think.

Joanna: You are right, and maybe, I am just thinking, that maybe the reason that it is not always that restful – for me – is that I continue to check stuff on my phone as I watch TV. I need to stop that! {laughing}

Holly: Oh, when I am done with the work day, I plug it in and my phone is charging in my office and…

Joanna: Okay, that needs to happen in my world I think. So, redefining fun I think that is really, really important.

Holly: So, you had said earlier that it is hard for you to have fun sometimes in life, so what can people do if fun is difficult, if they are having problems making space for it?

Joanna: Commit to something small maybe? It is kind of like those big questions: What is my purpose in life or whatever, those things are really overwhelming. So maybe instead of ‘adding fun’ which might sound like way too much than what is currently possible, be like devote, or commit, to doing something that you enjoy every day. Maybe something that is not work related, but something that you enjoy and do that. And it can be different every day, obviously, you could even check-in every day and see: what would I enjoy right now? And then in you work, if something feels… then commit to asking: how could this be more fun? And it is the permission piece.

Holly: Yeah, and maybe make a list, of all of the things that you think are fun so: watching TV, going for a walk, reading a book, whatever; and then pick from that list if you are having trouble.

Joanna: I have tried that, that list, because I love lists, like we said, right? It makes everything…I think because I want fun to be something big and amazing; and when I put it on a list it looks like: meh. Take a walk, meh! {laughing} It always feels more boring on my list, I don’t know why… but the list hasn’t actually worked for me. But giving myself permission to read every day, that has been key, I used to be a big reader, I used to be a book blogger, it used to be a really big part of my life. In the past years I stopped reading basically, at least certainly fiction. And now, I give myself that space every day to read, and it is not like it is a priority, but it is permission to read without any point. So, what do you think people should do if they are having trouble?

Holly: So, if a list doesn’t work for you another thing that I have done, so for example when I used to go out for walks every day, now I do longer walks less often, whereas before I used to do a short little walks every day, I used to really struggle sometimes to know where to go, because I live in an area where there are so many different places I could walk, it depends on which direction I leave when I walk out my front door. And so what I did was I got these different index cards and I wrote down all the different places I like to go walking, and I used them as oracle cards and I would put them face down, and I would just pick one and then I would see: how I feel about that one? Does that sound fun? Okay great, I will go, if not, I would do something else.

Joanna: I love that, that is so cool!!

Holly: Make your own oracle cards.

Joanna: It doesn’t even have to be walking trails, you can make index cards with a different kind of physical activity. I love that, that is so cool!

Holly: {laughing} So you could do: reading, TV, walking, bath…whatever. It is a bath, you are not dancing in the bath, but it is relaxing, and it is fun. {laughing} It is restful, it is recharging.

Joanna: I love the oracle card idea. Maybe we should create a deck, Holly, of self-care…

Holly: Self-care oracle cards.

Joanna: Okay, we are doing it!!! {laughing}

Holly: Alright, so what if you are not enjoying this fun and play, what if you are just doing it because you said that you were going to do it, and it has become a chore and you are not having fun because you are feeling guilty.

Joanna: There are two things there, actually, Holly – if you didn’t add the guilty thing, at the end it would have been one thing. If you are feeling guilty, then that’s something to work on, right? That’s an energy, that’s a set of beliefs, that’s something you need to shift so that you allow yourself that time for yourself. But on the other hand, if you are okay with that, if you are okay spending time on yourself, but whatever it is that you are choosing to do is not feeling fun, then you need to find something else, right? It shouldn’t become a chore, it is just like with the mindset work or anything. If it doesn’t feel good, then it is just not in alignment, that’s your soul sending you a message that that’s not what you need to be doing right now.

Holly: Get out your oracle cards and do something different… {laughing}

Joanna: That can be fun too, right? Giving yourself to experiment and play. I did that a few months ago, I am like: okay, I need to get to know myself again, what do I find fun?

Holly: Exactly.

Joanna: So, that’s just a matter of trying stuff out and being like: No, that was boring, not that wasn’t fun. {laughing} And letting yourself just get to know yourself like you would a partner.

Holly: Exactly, okay, final question, this is a really important one is: What if you allow so much fun into your life – and your business is feeling so heavy and you are just not enjoying it – and you are having so much fun with this other stuff, and you start to become afraid that the fun is going to take over your life and business and you are going to let your business go, what do you do with that?

Joanna: This is totally a hypothetical question, right?

Holly: Totally hypothetical, yes. Neither of us have ever experienced anything like this, ever! {laughing}

Joanna: My goodness, I don’t really know what to do with that because it is not a hypothetical question we were just talking about this. I sometimes worry that if I give in and keep looking for the fun, I am never going to do the business stuff again. But then, I do actually enjoy the business stuff as well. I don’t know, I think sometimes you get yourself into a state, probably, where you haven’t taken enough time for yourself, enough space for yourself, where maybe you just need a lot more space than you expected. And so, is I practice what I preach, then I would have to say: you have to follow what feels good, and if the business isn’t feeling good then if you choose not to drop it all together, then you need to open to other ways, or just let it all go and start from scratch. Or, really go back to why you started in the first place and what you would do if you weren’t getting paid for it, right? What would you do anyway with your time, because this is your life! At the end of the day, everyday it is your life, you don’t want to be spending that in misery.

Holly: I agree. I think it is a sign oftentimes that you need to rest, do something else, distract your mind, then maybe come back to your business with a new perspective and pivot into something new or change something. But sometimes we need that extended play time, or fun time, away from the business, to give us that perspective and we can’t see when we are caught up in the hamster wheel every day.

Joanna: And it is true that when you step away and do other things, ideas come, right? I love learning, I am addicted to courses and to learning and stuff. A lot of the time it is just procrastination, so I would rather be learning than actually be getting out there and doing my own work. But now, it is like, no this is really what I want to be doing, I want to be watching these classes. Those classes gave me my next idea. It is like that pull was actually leading me to where I needed to be, so I could see how somebody else did something and I was like: oh, I could do something similar, this is a really, really, cool idea. So that was good.

Holly: Yeah, exactly.

Joanna: But it wasn’t work really.

Holly: But it was giving yourself that time and space.

Joanna: Yeah indeed. Now all these examples are coming into my mind of when I did just let go and allowed myself to spend time on what I really wanted to spend time on, something came out of that. I didn’t know what that would be at the time, but something came out of that. So, it is really allowing yourself to follow those nudges as well, right? That’s deep I am going to have to do something with that.

Holly: {laughing} A blog post or video or something.

Joanna: I meant for myself {laughing} I need to give myself the space to do these things and stop judging myself for not wanting to go back to work.

Holly: Exactly, give yourself permission to do what feels fun and playful and right, and eventually you are going to understand why you needed that time.

Joanna: That’s really good advice, are you going to take it Holly?

Holly: {laughing} I have been taking it for a while! {laughing} All right, so I think we can wrap it up, I think that is very complete if anyone has any questions about how to add more fun and play into your business and life, let us know. You can email me at: [email protected] or [email protected]. Excellent, thank you so much for joining us and have a great day.

So, I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and I hope you are inspired to have more fun and play in your business and life. I would like to encourage you to spend a few minutes now to think about one fun or playful thing that you could do in your business and life, add that to your calendar, make some time and do it, and see how things change. See how things change, see if you come back to your business, with a fresh mind and new inspiration or see what it does for you.

As we said before, drop us a line and let us know what you thought about this week’s episode, you can email me at [email protected] or find me on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram and get in touch. I would love to give you a shout out on the show and share your comments. I would also love for you to join me in my private Facebook group, Business Mindset Alchemists so we can continue the conversation there, podcasting is such a one-way-conversation, so I would love to get some feedback from you in the group. Business Mindset Alchemists, is a group dedicated to exploring business mindset and how you can get the mindset you need to achieve your business and life dreams. I would love to see you in there, you can go to: https://www.hollyworton.com/group and you will be redirected to the Facebook group.

Thanks again for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a quick review on itunes it would really mean the world to me and remember to visit https://www.hollyworton.com/240 for the show notes on this episode.

Next week I will be back with another solo episode talking about what to do when you are sick of social media and this also applies to if you are sick of networking, public speaking, whatever. Whatever that one thing is in your business that you are sick of doing in terms of marketing and getting clients and I think that is a really relevant compliment to this week’s episode, so please remember to tune in next week, I look forward to sharing that story with you. Thank you very much and have a great day.