Today’s Guest

About Jo Casey

Jo Casey is a certified life coach, trainer and coach mentor.  She’s British, slightly nerdy and allergic to the marketing bullsh*t in the coaching industry. Founder of jocasey.com, podcaster, speaker, and writer for Coaching Blueprint, Mind Body Green and Tiny Buddha.

 Things that make me scream with glee: Freshly washed bed linen, watching my husband get all ‘handy’ around the place (DIY I mean), yellow wedge sandals, fabric stores, the sound of my kids giggling, Jesus Christ Superstar the musical.

Spirit Animal: Lesley Knope

Why you should listen to me about coaching: I’ve been training, coaching and mentoring coaches for 14 years and I built my own coaching and training business after a lot of initial trial and error. I’ve been where you are now and I love showing coaches like you how to pull out all of the things that will make your business stand out and attract the right clients to you, without wasting a lot of time on useless and expensive shiny objects.

Listen to this episode

  

What You’ll Learn

• How to speak the truth when the truth is hard to say
• How to figure out what is your truth
• How do know when you’re actually being authentic
• How to deal with fear when speaking up
• How to deal with perfectionism so you can show up imperfectly
• How to say the things you think people don’t want to hear

Things We Discussed

• Kelly Diels 
• Desiree Adaway 

How to Subscribe

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Related episodes

• 246: Jo + Holly ~ How to Tell if You’re Out of Alignment or Deep in Fear With Your Business
• 239: Holly Worton ~ How to Quit the Comparison Game for Good
• BMP210 Kelly Covert ~ How to Use Your Authentic Voice to Be Truly Memorable Online
• BMP208 Holly Worton ~ What to Do When You Have Nothing to Say
• BMP176 Lisa Lister ~ How to Get Published by Hay House or Other Traditional Publishers

Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

{INTRO}

Holly:   Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 216. This is your host Holly Worton, and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Jo Casey. Today, we are going to talk about how to actually be authentic and speak your truth. Because, these are concepts that, while very important in business, have kind of turned into senseless buzz words: everyone seems to be talking about being authentic, and speaking your authentic truth, but not very many people actually saying how do you do that, and how do you get started doing that. So, today Jo and I are going to explore some of this including sharing some stories about how we have shared things, and how it has gone well and how it has gone not so well.

            So, things that you are going to learn today:

• How to say the stuff that you think won’t be received well, or might not be received well;
• How to speak the truth, when the truth feels hard;
• What is your truth? How to figure that out?
• How do you know when you are actually being authentic?
• How to deal with fear;
• How to deal with perfectionism, and how to show up imperfectly;
• How to say the things that you think people don’t want to hear.

So, we are going to be sharing, like I said: top tips, personal stories and practical action stuff that can help you get clear on how you actually want to show up, be authentic, and speak your truth. So, hope you enjoy this episode.

{EPISODE}

Jo:       Hello everybody! This is Jo Casey and I am here with Holly Worton. Welcome to this month’s special bonus episode; and Holly and I today are, we have kind of had a bit of a pre-recorded conversation about what we want to talk about today, and it was one of those, that we got into it so quickly, that we thought: we should probably start recording this; because it is a subject that is coming up a lot for our clients, for us as well. And that is: there is a lot of advice out there around speaking your truth and being authentic in your business; the thing is: how do you actually do that? How do you speak your truth? And, especially when that truth is not the received wisdom, is not always going to be what people want to hear? How do you still stand in that place and be authentic and real and all that stuff… So, Holly, hi!

Holly:   Hello! I’m really excited to talk about this, because, I think this is something a lot of people struggle with, and I know that it is something that I have really struggled with as well.

Jo:       Yeah, me too. I think, especially, it is one of those pieces of advice, that kind: just be authentic and just show up as yourself, speak your truth and all of that stuff, it is one of those pieces of advice that I think: yeah, yeah, that makes sense; and then, when you start to unpack it it is like: what the hell does that even mean? And, it opens up all kinds of issues around: how do you know what is your truth? How do you know what is authentic? How do you know which bit of your truth to be revealing in a public sphere and then how do you actually do it? Because, for a lot of us: we want to be liked; we want to be kind; we want to say things that are going to help us to be liked, and we are running reputation-based-businesses, so we certainly don’t want to be pushing people away and turning people off. So, how do we walk that line? Being authentic, while still maintaining our reputation, without showing up being a hot mess or just firing off whatever is in our consciousness at any one time? It is a really kind of complex issue, I think.

Holly:   It is, and I think it is something that, until you kind of tap into the core of your truth and authenticity, and start walking it, and practising it, and doing it; then I think it starts to flow; but in the beginning it is like: er er I don’t know what I am doing. And you kind of have these false starts and stops, until you get it and then it kind of flows. The question is: how do you get started?

Jo:       Yeah, that’s a really good point actually. The analogy that makes most sense to me, and how it is kind of worked for me and my business, it is like, I started off, many moons ago {laughing}, my business almost wearing a costume, and almost like a mask as well. So, I kind of dressed up as what I thought I needed to be to show up online: kind of following all the gurus, and the people that I followed, and looking at other peoples websites and: what do they talk about? And after a while realising that: a) that takes a lot of energy; and b) that’s not getting me noticed, that’s not getting me the results that I need. And so, over the past few years, it has almost been a question of like peeling bits of that costume off, and now that I am thinking it sounds almost like some crackers burlesque show, or something I am doing! {Holly: laughing} Like, pulling off a glove! …But, I think one of the things that people worry about, when you say: show up and be authentic and speak your truth; it is like: basically, you are asking me to be stark naked on the Internet, emotionally. And, that’s not necessarily the case, I think there are definitely things that you don’t want to be sharing online and that is going to be slightly different for everybody. And also, it doesn’t have to be an instant: ta da! Here I am in all my glory! type thing. It is more of an evolutionary process, like I say, peeling off the layers of artifice. Does that make sense?

Holly:   Yeah, totally makes sense, and it is something that, like you say, you don’t have to just strip naked and hop out there onto your website. You can start sharing little things, little-by-little, gradually… until you get comfortable with that and then kind of share bigger things, and share bigger stories, and share bigger stories, until finally kind of peeled off the layers of that mask. And you have shared so much of yourself that it is easier for you to talk about the bigger things.

Jo:       Yeah! And here is another question that kind of came up for us really quite quickly when we were doing a little pre-recording chat: how do you know what is your truth?

Holly:   That’s a hard one! I think that’s wrapped up in: what’s my message? And how do I find my message?

Jo:       Yeah, one of the things that – because I worked with a coach called Kelly Diels earlier in the year, who I know I have mentioned on the show before, and one of the things that she does is, about once a month or every four weeks, she will open up a blank piece of paper and she will write “I believe” at the top of it. Just write out all the things that she believes not just about business stuff, or business strategy, but what she believes about the world, about society. And, then she posts one of those each day – she kind of gives them a quick edit – and posts one of those each day. And so, sometimes, they are about how we show up with authentic marketing, because that’s kind of Kelly’s thing, she talks about the female lifestyle empowerment brand and how it’s this kind of messed up thing that is going on on the Internet, but she also talks about racial justice, and social justice, and feminism, and all kinds of, what would appear to be not directly related things, but when they are presented consistently like that, or do relate back to her core business message and it is really powerful watching how she shows up online. There is someone else called: Desiree Adaway who again talks a lot about racial justices in the States, and runs courses – things like Diversity 101 and things like that – she talks a lot about brave spaces – and she writes a Facebook update every day called “Dear Sister (not just Cister)” it is a little kind of missive, a little love-letter to women everywhere. And, again, not necessarily directly related to her business, but shows up with some core fundamental truth. I don’t see them showing up and saying, I don’t know: I had eggs Benedict for my breakfast this morning, it is not that level of revelation that people kind of take the piss out of on Instagram: oh my God, photos of my dinner, that type of thing. They are speaking a truth that is much deeper than that kind of picture of: here is a picture of my toenails today, or whatever it might be {laughing}.

Holly:   {laughing}

Jo:       I don’t do Instagram, what do people do on there?!

Holly:   Actually, as you have said that, I have been sharing my salads quite a bit on Instagram, so I am guilty on what I had for lunch today…

Jo:       {laughing}

Holly:   {laughing} But I make beautiful salads!

Jo:       I think you can’t beat a good, well put together salad! There is nothing worse than a boring salad!

Holly:   …but we did touch on, that was the topic of our previous episode, talking about the deeper stuff and I think that’s the stuff that helps people to connect with us; because, yes, I share my salads because I think they are beautiful and they are delicious, but it is also because I love seeing what people eat because I am a nosy Nancy! {laughing} And so I like sharing things when I make beautiful things, but no one is going to sign up to work with me because I make beautiful salads: it is the deeper stuff that helps people connect with us, and get to know us, and sign up to work with us if we are a good fit. And that’s the stuff that helps people see whether we are a good fit for them or not.

Jo:       So, quite often I think that our truth is very directly linked to our values, the values that… the old definition I was taught way back in the day, when I was doing this type of work is: your values are what you would fight for, you would argue for, you would die for. What are those things that, this is fundamentally what I believe is right or wrong. And I think when we are able to have the self-awareness to tap into those; so say for example, one of my values is kindness. I really value kindness, so I get really viscerally offended if I see someone being cruel, or bullying, and things like that. And I think that helped me to make that link between… actually a lot of the marketing, and why I don’t like the marketing, is there a sneeringness to it, a: ‘you’re not good enough’ to it and that to me isn’t very kind. So that, I think, started me on the journey as to why I don’t like certain types of marketing and why I do like certain kinds of marketing, and going back to my values of what’s really important to me. I really believe that I want people to have more economic choices than are on offer than from the traditional 9-5, or zero hours contract; there a lot of places these days that have those. Having a sustainable business is really empowering, you can have space in your life to look after your mental health, to look after your other interests, and we can become much more whole humans, if we are not relying on somebody else having the power to say: you need to be in at this location, at this time, and do these tasks, and then I will pay you what I think you are worth. That type of thing, I really hate that. And so, again, that is another big driver, that kind of tapping into my values, and my why, helps to connect me to: what is my truth around this.

Holly:   And so, do you think that same tapping into the why, is what helps you speak the truth, when the truth is hard? Or, say the stuff that you are afraid might be afraid won’t received well, or might be polemic?

Jo:       It has definitely helped, yes, but it took me a while. I think, it is about that self awareness, but also I think genuinely one of the other things that happened with me, is that it becomes too exhausting to keep that mask on, and keep that costume on. And so, I kind of got to that point where I just cannot talk about this, in this way, anymore. I have to say what I feel. And I think one of the kind of earlier turning points in my business, was when I connected with Andrea Owen, and we had this conversation on my podcast, and then she then invited me onto her podcast. And, I kind of went on one of my- now familiar to anyone who listens to this podcast {laughing}, rants about this ridiculous six figures, in six months, or six minutes, type of lie, that is pushed around out there. Because not only have I been seduced by it, and tempted to sign up for one of those great big programs that were selling that, but I was meeting so many people, who had literally taken out $25,000 loans, or had cashed in their life savings, to pay for one of these programs, which quite frankly are crap. And they were no further to making six figures than I was. And that again really kind of struck with me against my values, I thought that was wrong, I think there is cruelty in that, I think they are misleading people. And I think I got to the point where I thought: I cant talk about how fabulous this industry is anymore, because it is not. So, It is more for me the fact that the amount of energy to keep it contained, was greater than my need to get it out, but that has not always been the case. There have been other areas, I am sure, that I have kind of thought: I am not sure that I should be saying this and it has taken me longer to kind of get to the point of outing myself.

Holly:   So, have there ever been any times when you have spoken your truth, or posted one of your “I believe” statements, and gotten a backlash for it?

Jo:       Yeah!

Holly:   How did that go?

Jo:       There is a real issue about trolling, particular for women online, with trolls out there. But, I have been really lucky, and I haven’t had anything particularly nasty, but there have been a couple of times and I might have mentioned this story before on your podcast, I can’t remember… So one of the things being within the personal development arena, is around this idea of positive thinking. And, I am not one of life’s natural optimists, I am a learnt optimist, so I am very in Martin Seligman’s work and things like that; and one of the reasons I got into resilience work was because I experienced depression and anxiety, for most of my life, so I needed good tools to be able to help me to function and help me have a happy, fulfilled, life. So, if you come from that kind of gene stock, if you like, it is very difficult to just think positive, it is like: no, I can’t see anything positive about today. And, there is a lot of stuff online, particularly in the coaching and personal development world, about: just think positive and it will all be fine. And my kind of… just logically I know that’s not true, life isn’t always fine, we all have our ups and downs, we all do. We all do have our fair share of sorrows and things that happen. And then I came across some research about how positive thinking, in some circumstances, can actually make outcomes worse. And, there has been quite a few pieces of researches around it, but the one that initially peaked my interest was, a study that they did around graduates doing end of term exams. And one group of students had been encouraged to visualise every day – them getting a great mark in their final paper – and the other group were asked to journal, and reflect on things that may go wrong, and also to spend some time visualising it going well. Which group do you think got better results?

Holly:   The second group.

Jo:       The second group, yep. And the reason… when they did some analysis of why that was, what they found was the group that had just done the positive thinking visualisation did less work.

Holly:   Interesting…

Jo:       Because, they became a bit more complacent. I think there is something about that, that really stuck home with me and I thought: yes, there is an upside to my natural pessimism, and my ability to worry ridiculously about things, if it is contained it can be useful. And so I wrote quite an in-depth blogpost about it, and I had somebody, in the comments, absolutely tear it to shreds. I mean, he was sneering, he told me I was being dangerous. He was a doctor and…

Holly:   oh!

Jo:       …it’s all right, I looked at his LinkedIn profile afterwards…he was like a doctor of philosophy or something, he wasn’t a medical doctor, but that’s what I thought at first, I kind of panicked. [He said] I should keep my opinions to myself, and I was being dangerous, and I really freaked out about it for about half an hour, and then I asked for a bit of support from some peers who kind of looked at it and went: ‘that guy’s a dick’.

Holly:   {Laughing}

Jo:       …with his comments, he is just being a dick.’ And then I read it again, and I thought, actually: he is not addressing what I am talking about. He is just calling me names…

Holly:   oh interesting.

Jo:       Yeah, so, I was then able to write him a really in-depth response back, pointing out were he misunderstood and this was my point, and this sort of thing, and it was super empowering; because I had been so terrified of saying anything that might upset people up to that point. And, one of my big fears was that somebody was going to say: ‘you are not qualified’ ‘who are you to be telling people these types of things’; it was that old kind of imposter complex. And, here was somebody saying those things to me, and I was fine! In fact, it actually helped to clarify and strengthen my faith in myself. So, it was really, really, positive.

Holly:   I think once we have that first experience of someone commenting negatively on one of our things, I think that really just kind of breaks the ice and makes it so much easier. Yeah, for me it was I have got this YouTube video that I made about a year ago, it has got 47,000 views on now, and it obviously means it has gotten out to a much wider audience and to people that don’t know me…because I don’t know 47,000 people. So it is about 7 Ways to Self-Muscle Test, and so lots of people have found it useful, I have had really great feedback on it, but then there are of course the skeptics that are like: this is bullshit, this doesn’t work. And I am like: that’s totally okay, like, if it works for you, great; if it doesn’t work for you, great. If you don’t believe in it, great; like, do your own thing. This is to help people who want to make this work for them. But, I have had so many people saying: I am demonstrating the pendulum movement, and people are saying: you are moving your arm. This is not like a scientific study, I am demonstrating the different ways that you can use muscle testing. But, I have had so many comments on this, that I have actually changed the description in the video saying: ‘I am not interested in debating the validity of this technique, this is to help you, if you think this technique can help you, or it can be useful in your life. If not, I am not going to debate it with you.’ And, actually I have got fewer comments now, I don’t know if people actually read the description on the the YouTube video, but I have had fewer comments now that I have said straight up: I am not debating this with you, if it serves you take it; if it doesn’t serve you, don’t.

Jo:       I really like that, that is pretty fantastic of you, to say that you are not interested in debating. It is like that everyone knows in a complete sentence, and it is setting a boundary around it, but how did you feel when you first got the comment?

Holly:   Well I felt like, I think one of the first comments that were… YouTube is famous for like crappy comments, just because people can find your video that are totally unrelated to you, and they don’t know anything about you or your topic, so you get some really off the topic comments. But, it was the person who criticised that my arm was moving when I was doing the pendulum, and I just thought: oh my God I didn’t do it perfectly, it wasn’t good enough! {laughing} And then I thought: wait a second, the whole point of this is to show people the different ways, it is not to be perfect. And so I actually commented on that, and said what I just said, but it made me feel like: oh I was supposed to be perfect and I wasn’t and ahhh and now it is on the video… {laughing} and 47,000 have now seen it! So, I had that initial: oh I am all wrong and imperfect.

Jo:       I love that you are so honest about that, because I think that is such a normal, common, response of: oh I am not perfect!

Holly:   {joking} And I should have been!

Jo:       Yes! Which is kind of ridiculous, because it is not anything that we would extend to somebody else. We don’t expect other people to be perfect and yet we…this kind of desire to be perfect is a thread that runs through so many of the conversations that you and I have, that I have with my clients, I am sure that it comes up with yours as well. I think this kind of: oh God, I need to be perfect gets really kind of bundled up with: oh I couldn’t possibly say that. If somebody has actually got an opinion that they actually want to be sharing, but it kind of is at odds with this: I need to be perfect. And for a lot of us, being perfect is in the eyes of other people as well, so I need other people to approve of me, I want other people to like me.

Holly:   Yeah, and I think perfectionism is very much wrapped up with fear, because… if I am perfect then I have nothing to be afraid of, because I am perfect, I am untouchable, no one can touch me because I do everything perfect. It is like we hold up this false vision of perfectionism because we think that perfectionism is going to keep us safe, but it’s not attainable, because no one is perfect. But, I think, for me at least, that’s what it comes from, because if I am impeccable, if I am imperfect, then no one can say anything about me because I am perfect. And it is interesting because I am not a perfectionist in the sense that my thoughts of perfectionism stop me from doing things, I still do things, but if I make a mistake like moving my arm when I am doing the pendulum video, that just eats me up. Which is clearly a lesson that I have to learn, because it keeps coming up in my life. {laughing}

Jo:       {Laughing} You and me both, darling! {laughing}

Holly:   I think for me it has a lot to do with fear.

Jo:       Mm I think you are right… so, have you ever had situations where you wished you could have spoken your truth, but you kind of stepped away from it because for whatever reason the fear, or the perfectionism, kind of held you back?

Holly:   Not in recent times, but definitely for my entire life up until fairly recently. And, part of that is wrapped up with my Aspergers, because even though I didn’t get diagnosed until two years ago, I always knew that I was different at some level and to me that difference was wrong. And I was so quiet and so shy for my entire life, because I was so afraid to speak up, to speak my truth, to speak anything…whether it was deep, shallow, whatever, because I was so afraid of being wrong, of getting laughed at, of being weird, whatever. So, my entire life was: being afraid to speak anything out of fear, and then kind of on my recent personal development journey I managed to peel that off, and get rid of that, and then once I got diagnosed that was kind of like: oh okay, so now I have permission to just be my weird self. But, my entire life I was very quiet, I was very shy, very afraid to speak.

Jo:       Mm that’s so interesting. And so after your… what change was it – the diagnosis you think? Or, was it the fact that you have more grown into yourself? I am curious to know…

Holly:   It was a combination of things… there was definitely a before and after in my life, in terms of when I got my first diagnosis; because I have two diagnoses. When I got my first diagnosis it was like: okay, I understand myself, my entire life makes sense, I now understand why I am the way I am; I understand how I am different from other people, because I didn’t have the language for it…it was just like a deep feeling that I was different, but I wasn’t quite sure how. So, I had the language for it; I had the concepts around it; I had the explanation as to why. So, that really allowed me to give myself permission to just start peeling off those layers of mask, because I had a huge like costume built up after so many years of trying to fit in, trying to be normal. So, it was like I finally was allowed to peel off those layers and just be myself.

Jo:       Mm that sounds really liberating.

Holly:   Massively liberating, yeah, very, very life changing. Because as you said earlier, it is exhausting to try to pretend to be someone you are not, and I spent 41 years acting, trying to pretend to be neuro-typical, even though I didn’t have that word for it. I just wanted to be like everyone else and so I would pretend to be like everyone else, and, it was so tiring.

Jo:       Yeah.

Holly:   It is so much easier if you can just not fit in, and speak your truth, and do the stuff that everyone says that you have to do {laughing}. Like, once you can crack that, it is so much easier, but I think it starts by taking baby steps. So, if anyone goes away from this episode and does their “I believe” statements — and I love that you brought that up, because several months ago I did that in my journal, one time, and I would love to go back and revisit it — but if anyone goes away from this episode and does their “I believe” statements, pick the easiest one, the easiest one to share. Put that online, put it on Facebook, put it on wherever it is that you hang out online; put it on your blog; and see how that feels and maybe work your way up to the bigger ones?

Jo:       Yeah. It doesn’t have to be this all or nothing, I am kind of jumping off the cliff with it, type thing. It can be that just stepping that bit closer to it each time.

Holly:   It is like building up your truth. You don’t go to the gym and pick up the biggest weight in the gym…you start small and work your way up as you are building the muscle; so this is like your authentic truth muscle.

Jo:       Yeah – I like that, I like that concept!

Both:   {laughing}

Jo:       I keep picturing a little kind of figure inside our brains, kind of pulling dumb bells, and with a big weight lifting belt on {laughing}

Holly:   Yes, that’s exactly what happens {laughing}

Jo:       In my head that is totally what I am choosing to believe. Is there anything else…taking baby steps, I really like the idea of doing the “I believe” statements and then going with the easiest ones and kind of building up from there and building up the muscle. Anything else you would recommend if people are struggling with this idea of: what is my truth, and how do I speak it a bit more?

Holly:   Maybe set yourself a goal, and say like: once a week, or once every fortnight, or once a month – or whatever works for you – you are going to say something like that, you are going to share one “I believe” statement…but that might kind of – I hate to say force you – but like encourage you to do it on a regular basis. And it doesn’t have to be every single day, because again, we are very conscious of all the noise that is out there, but if you take the time, figure out how often is right for you and then share one of those statements and really make it deep, and to focus on making it serve people by you speaking your truth. I think that can be really powerful and really help you break out of your shell and form those connections with people by speaking your truth.

Jo:       I think it is always helpful to take the focus off yourself.

Holly:   Yeah.

Jo:       So, I think that if you can focus on… some of the things that I quite often will say to my client is: okay, imagine your ideal client and they are struggling right now, what do they need to hear? Say that. So, it kind of takes the focus off yourself a little bit and you are able to kind of speak with passion, and with some of that depth to it, because you are wanting to speak directly to those clients and say that kind of thing that matters, that thing that is going to help turn things around for them. And they are not the things like: ‘just live your best life’ or whatever those kind of cliches are that we now have online. It is about that deeper stuff, that you would say to another human being that you cared about.

              I also think there is something about having people around you to support you as you go through this and as you grow: having a community, having a coach. I know we would say that, but it is true. Having people you know are in your corner who have got your back. I have to say one of the most fantastic things about when this guy did leave this nasty comment on my blog back in the day, was my posse rallied {laughing} and they were like: oh no, oh no…I am going to reply back to him! And, not that I needed people to be doing that but it felt so good that they were willing to.

Holly:   Yes, yes.

Jo:       And, also people who can give you a bit of a sense check, and a bit of a sanity check and say: well, I can see how maybe it has been interpreted that way. Or, one of my friends said: “oh hell no, he is just telling you to get back in your lady box and leave the serious to the men”, which really made me laugh, and made me feel better, whether it was true or not, who knows… But, it was so nice having people really passionately rallying and supporting me. I think that’s invaluable find your posse, find your people, whether that be through an formal mastermind, or through a group, or a Facebook group ~ Holly has a Facebook group, I have a Facebook group. And it is about having fellow travellers who are are your people, who you can kind of go, and lick your wounds with, and say: somebody said this and has been mean; or I said this and it didn’t go well. Or, “I said this and it was fantastic and I am really proud of myself for doing it.” That’s essential, otherwise you get stuck in your head, with your inner critic going: everyone hates you now, everyone thinks you are stupid for saying that… or, whatever your inner critic decides to say to you that day.

Holly:   Mm exactly!

Jo:       Anything else we want to add Holly, before it wraps up?

Holly:   No, I think we have pretty much covered it; we have covered all of our points. I think it is has been a very kind of holistic exploration of the topic and I think that has been useful, because we have included some practical steps on how people can actually get started doing it.

Jo:       And it’s an evolution; it is imperfect action. You are not always going to go: right, sometimes you may want to go in speaking the truth, and then you back away from it right at the last minute. Sometimes you will speak the truth and it won’t always go down that great; but it is about having kindness and self-compassion and allowing yourself to make mistakes, and take that imperfect action. I think that’s the way that you get deeper to it, and you allow that truth muscle to build and for yourself to evolve.

Holly:   Yes, definitely, the truth muscle.

Jo:       Yes, I like the truth muscle!

Holly:   So, Holly, tell people where they can find you?

Jo:       If they are not familiar…

Holly:   You can find me at: https://www.hollyworton.com and from there you can find links to all my social network profiles; my Facebook group is: http://HollyWorton.com/group and that redirects to the Facebook group, and, I would love to hang out with you online. So, get in touch.

Jo:       And I am Jo Casey, and you can find me at http://JoCasey.com and I also have a Facebook group called the Coaches Collective, and you can find that if you go to: http://JoCasey.com and click on the tab collective, and it will give you all the information about that there. Thank you so much for listening today, and thank you Holly for joining me in this conversation and we will speak to you soon!

Holly:   Thank you very much for listening, and I just wanted to extend an invitation, as always, to join my private Facebook group: Business Mindset Alchemists. It is a group that is dedicated to exploring business mindset, and how you can get the mindset you need to achieve your dreams. If you are a woman entrepreneur I would love to see you in there – I love engaging with people in there – I pop in there everyday Mondays to Fridays, sometimes on the weekends. So, I would love to see you there, if you just go to: http://HollyWorton.com/group you will be redirected to the Facebook group.

              And, secondly, one thing I keep forgetting to mention is: if you would like to be featured on this show talking about business mindset, and how this show has helped you, and exploring some mindset stuff with me, please apply to be on the show. Go to: http://HollyWorton.com/guest and that will redirect you to a form where you can get in touch. I would love to feature one of my listeners on the show, so I am really, really looking forward to this.

And, finally, thank you for listening, and remember to visit hollyworton.com/216 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you.