235: Joanna Hennon + Holly ~ How to Find the Right Balance Between Structure and Intuition

Today’s Guest

More About Joanna Hennon

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What You’ll Learn

• How to find the right balance between structure and freedom (that works for YOU)
• How to get things done and still go with the flow
• Is it even good to have 100% structure or 100% intuition?
• What structure can do for you
• Why structure doesn’t necessarily take away your freedom
• How to use time blocking and an online calendar to achieve flexible structure
• How to plan your content and still leave room for flexibility
• Why you need to plan in down time and self care FIRST
• How to avoid overscheduling
• The question you need to ask yourself every day to make sure you’re on track
• How to balance the desire for a safety net with trust in yourself
• Why self awareness is the key to finding your own balance

Things We Discussed

• Jo Bendel, productivity coach
• Joanna’s Soul Space 
• Bashar 
• Joanna’s Soul Smart Podcast 

Connect with Joanna

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• Twitter
• Pinterest

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Related episodes

• 292 Joanna Hennon + Holly ~ What’s Better: Spirit Guides or Tapping into Your Intuition? Part II
• 290: Jo Casey + Holly ~ What’s Better: Spirit Guides or Tapping into Your Intuition?
• BMP162 Holly Worton ~ Tap Into Your Intuition to Make Your Business Easier
• BMP141 Caroline Frenette ~ How to Master Your Intuition to Create Quantum Leaps in Business
• [R2B 83] How to Follow Your Creative Intuition, with Flora Bowley
• [R2B 79] How to Tap Into Your Intuition & Add Magic to Your Business, with Fifi Mills

Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

Holly: Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 235. This is your host Holly Worton and – as promised – we have got a slightly new feature on the podcast for 2018. As I mentioned, in the last couple of episodes, we will be playing around with having special co-hosted episodes, kind of like the ones that I do with Jo Casey, but with a different co-host every quarter. So, today, is the first of the special episodes and I am super-excited to introduce Joanna Hennon as the co-host for the first quarter of this year. Joanna has already been a guest three times on this podcast, episodes: 86, 158 and 178; and I am really, really, excited about this collaboration. Joanna has her own podcast, the Soul Smart podcast which was launched mid-2017. Joanna helps ambitious leaders and changemakers to create their reality with intention by using all the wisdom, power and tools that they already hold within them at the soul level. She talks a lot about being soul smart and running your business from a perspective of being soul smart.

So, today we are going to be talking about something really, really, interesting. It is kind of related to last week’s episode, we are going to be talking about how to balance and intuition. How to get things done and still go with the flow. How to balance intuition and getting stuff done. And I think this is such an important topic because it is something that I have struggled with, I know that Joanna has struggled with, as we talk about on this episode and so many of my other online business friends, and people in my community, have also mentioned struggling with: How do you find the right place on the spectrum between intuition and going with the flow?

So, this is a super-practical episode, it is about 44 minutes long and we are going to be talking all about our personal journeys, to finding what works for us in terms of structure and intuition; we are going to talk about how to use an online calendar and time-blocking, which I did mention last week; what structure can do for you; why structure doesn’t take away your freedom; how to balance structure and freedom; how to plan your content with some structure while still having kind of a wildcard to go with the flow and talk about whatever is happening to you, or for you, at a certain time or place. We are going to talk about whether it is good to do 100% intuition, or 100% structure, or whether you need to be somewhere in-between. We are going to talk about how we would help clients who struggle with this particular issue. We talk about how to plan-in downtime; why you need to be kind to yourself; how to avoid overscheduling; the question you need to ask yourself, not just every week, but every day, to make sure you are doing what you need to be doing at any given moment. This is not just kind of a theoretical episode, we talk about really specific practical things that you can do. We talk about how to balance wanting a safety net vs. trusting, trusting yourself, trusting the universe. We talk about why self-awareness is so important. We talk about how to build fun into the structure so that it is flexible structure, rather than kind of like being in prison. This is… there really are no blueprints on this one, you need to make your own blueprint. And, in this episode, we give you the practical things that you can try so that you can play around with structure, intuition and see what works for you.

I love this episode, I am super-excited, this is the first episode that we are doing together for this year and I am really looking forward to the next one that we are doing next month. So, thank you so much for tuning in, I hope you find it interesting and useful.

Holly: Hello it is Holly Worton, and I am here with Joanna Hennon, hi Joanna!

Joanna: Hi Holly!

Holly: And, today, we are going to talk about how to get things done whilst still going with the flow. So, we are going to talk about how to balance and intuition and intuitive action taking; and this is a big issue for both of us and it is something that we also see a lot of our clients and people in our community struggling with, so, really excited about this topic.

Joanna: Yeah, I am too. I think it comes up so much for intuitives who kind of have this, kind of, as an intuitive you can even have a goal of going with the flow, it doesn’t always come naturally but it is like this holy grail of allowing yourself to go with the flow; and then when you start a big project like a business, or a book, or anything like that, and you need some structure; then all these problems crop up because the two don’t seem to marry very well naturally.

Holly: And I think it is also a problem because a lot of intuitive people really struggle with all of the online marketing stuff out there; because it is all very much geared towards structure. So, it is like: how do you find that happy medium between, I want ease and flow in my business and actually want to get stuff done and make stuff happen.

Joanna: Yeah, it is true actually; everything is super-structured, which it has to be, because if somebody is selling you a course on something, it has to have a structure to it. I even struggled with this in the processes that I teach, to put them into some kind of structure. {laughing} Because otherwise you can’t teach them, you have to have structure. But then when an intuitive, or someone who wants to go with the flow tries to implement it, it can get a little bit weird and boxy.

Holly: So, what has been your journey to finding that balance between intuition and structure?

Joanna: A long journey! So, I feel like I am balanced now, I will start with that. I feel like I am in a really good place with that and that is simply due to the fact that I hired a productivity coach last year and really kind of made myself learn about productivity, and learn about my own productivity, and how I work, and what’s best for me in terms of organising my time, and focussing, and all these things. But before that, I just resisted structure altogether. I ignored any modules and courses that were about systems or structure, I was like: no, no, I am intuitive, {Both: laughing} I don’t need that, I go with the flow. I just basically ignored it all, I thought it was completely against everything that I stood for, but what happened was I didn’t really do that much in the end – it was very unfocused. It was kind of like I did a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, and it wasn’t geared towards one goal, it wasn’t focussed, it wasn’t consistent even because I had no idea what I did last week {laughing} because I was going with the flow! {Both: laughing} You know! So, yeah.

Holly: So now you have got this productivity coach – and assuming she gives you an action plan, or you put together an action plan together – how do you implement that action plan while still being intuitive about your work schedule?

Joanna: I have a plan, but I am not a slave to the plan; so, I think that’s the key, really, for me, is to understand that I don’t have to stick to the plan. It is useful to have the plan and then I know if I do something else instead then I am making a choice for something else, and then that’s fine. But, I have something to start with that I know…the plan is just so important because it lets you know what you have to do. Otherwise you don’t even know what is involved in achieving the goal that you want to achieve, this at least forces you to make some kind of brainstorm of what could possibly be involved, and what you need to allow time for. So…

Holly: I think that’s especially important in big projects, because I think intuitive people particularly struggle with big goals; or bigger projects where there are so many little steps to take that if you don’t sit down and map it out, and give it a structure, it is so overwhelming you might even not get started.

Joanna: Yes indeed. Has that been your experience, Holly?

Holly: It has been kind of different for me, because my mind used to be really structured and rigid and super-organised; and I went through this process, I don’t know maybe about 15 years ago or more, where I felt like I was too structured, and too organised, and I just went the other way and it all went to hell. And that was really confusing to me because I had been so structured my entire life and it was like, I feel like since then I have been trying to work my way back into finding this balance. I feel like I am in a pretty good spot now, but it was really unnerving, because it was like I had too much structure, and then I had no structure. And I was like: I am totally lost, what do I do, how do I function? And, now, like I said, I think I am in a pretty good place, I allow myself to be flexible, I am more aware of my natural cycles of when I can focus and when I cannot; and I have gotten to know myself better, but it has been very much a journey of knowing what works for me, rather than following someone else’s plan.

Joanna: Oh yeah, I’m totally the same, it is about that self-awareness. And also, I find about a willingness to be compassionate and kind of soft with yourself; because when I first started doing the productivity thing I completely over-scheduled. So, my whole life was like: 2-3 I meditate; 3-4 I write. 4-5… There were no breaks ever! {laughing} And I was just like on this clock constantly {laughing} oh my god it was horrible, you know? It was absolutely horrible! And I ended up really anxious and stressed out all the time. It was because I wasn’t planning in things that gave me that down time, I wasn’t planning in breaks, I wasn’t planning in downtime, I wasn’t planning in exercise or like lunch! Blocking off lunch. And that has been a journey to me, that self-love and being kind to yourself, and allowing for kind of understanding that this is your life; like what’s the point if you are living in this totally stressed-out space? What’s the point?

Holly: Yeah; okay so you said two things that I think are really, really, important for us to pick apart here, first of all: planning in downtime. So, I use google calendar to plan my days and my weeks and my entire life. And I have time blocked out for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner. And they are blocked out, nobody can block in a client session or anything on top of that, they are there. I might shift them a little bit, but they are there. I have my kick boxing classes in there; I have personal journaling, and morning routine time in there; I have all that stuff blocked out to make sure it happens. Sometimes it doesn’t happen, sometimes I have to delete it, if I am extra busy, or I shift it, but it is in there, it forms the framework of my calendar. So, how do you make sure that all of your downtime, and self-care time actually happens?

Joanna: Well my productivity coach, and I might as well name her because she is awesome if anybody else is interested, then they should go to Jo Bendle, her name is Jo Bendle, but I believe her website is http://JoBendle.com but we will check that to make sure that is correct in the show notes. And she made me, when I first started working with her one-to-one, she also runs a group that’s great; she made me block in the self-care stuff first. And it was really the first time that I even blocked in the times when I would need to get my son from school. Before, I would let whatever happened during the day kind of decide that; and now I was like okay, on this day he needs to definitely stay in the after-school-hours, but on this day it is flexible, so why don’t I make sure that I don’t plan anything for that time and I can ask him what time he wants to be picked up, and that’s a really nice thing for us to do. So, I think you have to put it in first. It’s funny, it reminds me of something that my dad used to tell me about saving, that savings isn’t like what you put aside at the end of the month, whatever is left over, no, you put that aside first, you decide how much you want to save and you put that aside first before anything else happens and it is the same sort of thing, right? It is taking care of yourself first.

Holly: First. It is like the oxygen mask thing, we love using that analogy but how often do we actually put that into effect.

Joanna: I can’t actually stand that analogy, because I guarantee you that if anything happens on that aeroplane I will be putting on my son’s mask first {laughing} there is no way in hell…I don’t know if we are allowed language like that…?

Holly: {laughing} Yeah, yeah we are, whatever you want!

Joanna: There is just no way that I would put my mask on first.

Holly: {laughing} Alright, so forget the oxygen mask analogy, just schedule your downtime first.

Joanna: I think that’s the only way to get it in, otherwise it just becomes one of those things that you never have time for. And I think, if it is important for you, you have to put it in there. And downtime, if it is not important to you then that is something to explore because it should be. {laughing} I don’t do many ‘shoulds’ and that’s really your time, you don’t have to spend it kickboxing or blocking out meals if those things aren’t important to you, right?

Holly: Exactly

Joanna: Whatever it is that makes you feel like you are taking care of yourself. Maybe batch cooking, or whatever it is… you have to schedule it in.

Holly: So, the other thing that you said that I think is really important — and it has been a struggle for me — is being kind to yourself. So, if I don’t get everything done, or if I don’t get as much done, I have had the tendency to really beat myself up, and I think that time-batching has helped because instead of not doing it, I shift it to another day. But, I still really struggle with not feeling good about myself if I don’t do all the stuff that I wanted to do.

Joanna: I think a lot of people struggle with that; I used to struggle with it, I have to say that I have become quite good at that now. I don’t really judge myself, sometimes I get a bit pissy with myself just because I feel like I made the wrong choice, like I should have done that stuff, because what am I choosing for instead? I am really choosing to stay in place instead of growing, or… But, usually, if I don’t get everything done it means that I overscheduled because I am quite a hard-worker, so usually it actually means that either I overscheduled, or I forgot to include breaks. Like today, I had all this stuff in my calendar and I woke up just feeling so horrible, really, really, rotten; I am going to a conference in London on Thursday, and to meet you Holly!

Holly: Yay!

Joanna: And I was like: noooo I have to feel good, so I am just not going to do anything that’s in my calendar and some things I moved, and some things I was like: meh, maybe this doesn’t need to be done at all. So, I deleted it. {laughing}

Holly: And I think that’s a really interesting thing that I do as well. So, I use Asana for my tasks, but I also use emails. So, I will email myself with subject in all caps, and that’s a thing I have to do. And I find that if I keep… I use an app called boomerang in my Gmail account to make emails come back at a later date; and if I notice that I have been boomeranging either a task or an email too many times, then I have realised that it is really low priority and maybe I don’t need to do it. So, I have learned to give myself permission to just delete stuff if I haven’t been able to get around to it, because obviously it is not that important if I have not been doing it.

Joanna: Yeah, indeed. I think just that level of self-awareness and being willing to ask the question, rather than just assuming. And that’s really, you asked before how I do the structure and the intuition at the same time. And this is it right, I regularly, all the time, a 100-times a day, check-in with myself and ask: does this still feel good? Do I still want to do this? Do I still want to launch this thing? And if I don’t, then I will quit, I will. Even if it is right before I am supposed to be launching, or maybe not right before…probably then I would just take it as resistance, and work on the fears and all that stuff. But just that permission to change your mind if it is no longer feeling good, or yeah…

Holly: Yeah, and I think that’s a really important question to be asking yourself. So, what has structure done for you? How has it changed your life, and your business, in addition to getting stuff done?

Joanna: Oh, it has completely changed everything. I have gotten more done in the past five months than I have like in the past two years, I think. It has just been more structured, I see myself moving towards something, it is not just kind of random. I think that in business, I am sure that you have this too, Holly, there is this pressure to do all the things, and you have to introduce systems, then the client-intake thing, and the social media, and the marketing and the writing and the blog and you have to podcast…and all sorts of things and you can’t actually do all those things and do them well, right? So, the structure gives you focus, and makes you make choices because you can see in your calendar how much time you have and what you want to spend that time on. My own podcast has lapsed a little bit {laughing} for example; and that’s okay, because I know it’s a choice.

Holly: Yeah, and that’s the thing, it is about making conscious choices about what you are going to prioritise, rather than just doing whatever. And the other thing you mentioned earlier was overscheduling. And I think that time-blocking, and having everything visually blocked out in your calendar, also helps prevent over-scheduling, because if you had an-hour-and-a half blocked to do book-keeping, for example, and it took you two hours; then you know to schedule in two hours in the next month, so that you won’t be over-scheduled, or whatever. It really helps you visually see how long something takes, and how long you have to do other things.

Joanna: Do you leave time in between tasks in your calendar?

Holly: If it is an appointment, where I am actually speaking with someone else, I always leave half-an-hour, because I need to wind down from the previous call and then get ready for the next one. But, with tasks, no I don’t I usually put them back-to-back in the calendar because I tend to get a natural break, anyway, because I drink a lot of tea, so I am always getting up to either make a new cup of tea or go to the bathroom. {laughing} So that creates a natural break because I am constantly getting liquids.

Joanna: And that’s super-healthy Holly!

Holly: So, I have a tea and pee break! {laughing}

Joanna: A built-in system there! And has becoming more structured again, because you said you started off structured and then you let go of structure and then presumably you have embraced some of that structure back now? Because you are running a successful business and you get stuff done, as I see! {laughing} Are you happy with that balance now? Has that changed anything for you?

Holly: Yeah it has, I feel safer. It is like I trust myself now, because I know I am going to get stuff done rather than be like: oh, la de da… whatever, let’s flow. I feel safe, is the word that popped into my head.

Joanna: That’s interesting, because it is true, I can see that; and it has made me think that it makes me less doubting.

Holly: Yeah.

Joanna: Because I know that I am doing what I need to be doing, I know that I have a goal, and I am taking the steps towards that goal; and I am kind of focussing on the part of it that I can control, which is what I am giving my attention to. It just makes it…I can see the path that I am taking, it is not throwing everything at it, what’s the other image that other people use? Throwing spaghetti at the wall, until something sticks.

Holly: The American way of making spaghetti {laughing}.

Joanna: Is it?

Holly: When I was in college, when I was 18, that was how I was taught to make spaghetti, you throw it at the wall and if it sticks then it is done. {laughing] but of course that means it is overcooked.

Joanna: Is that it?

Holly: Yeah, that’s where it comes from.

Joanna: Oh, that’s really funny – because I know this is a total aside – but I know this from when I directed a play called, ‘The Odd Couple’ the female version of the The Odd Couple. And in that, one of the characters had to throw linguine against the wall, I think it was because he was mad, I can’t remember why. I don’t think she was doing it to test whether the spaghetti was cooked! {laughing} I just remember that very, very, vividly because my husband was in charge of making the spaghetti every night of the run. {Both: laughing}

Joanna: That we then had to throw at the wall. So, yes, anyway, a quick aside!

Holly: A quick aside… the origins of throwing spaghetti at the wall. So, one thing that I think it is really important to talk about is that a lot of people are afraid that if they create a structure, that structure will take away their freedom; and they will feel trapped, and stuck and they won’t enjoy their business anymore because they have got structure. So, what’s your experience been with that?

Joanna: Yeah, I have definitely been like that, and it is not just to do with business either, I am still… I feel like I am in a good place in terms of my business with that, but for example, I still resist structure like crazy when it comes to, for example, healthy eating habits. It is the exact same resistance, I am like: but it is boring to have that structure, that will just be boring, I will have no joy left.

Holly: That’s interesting you say that, because I resist structure in terms of meal planning. We decide every afternoon what we are going to have for dinner, and my husband will go up to the store, because we live in a small town and buy the stuff; but, I really resist the concept of planning on Sunday, or whatever, what we are going to eat the entire week because how do I know that I am going to feel like having chicken, on Thursday?

Joanna: But, that’s again, because we have done that; but again, you make the plan and you are flexible. So, you plan out, sometimes something has to be eaten on a certain day because it was cooked two days earlier and it will go bad or whatever; but you can plan in a certain number of meals for the week and then let yourself move them around. It is the same concept, I think we forget. It’s true, we forget all the time, we have this inbuilt really deep belief, really strong belief, that structure ties us into something. That’s not it, it kind of gives us a frame.

Holly: Yes, yes, yes. Exactly.

Joanna: To work within. It is like with children they say that children need kind of a frame within which then they can have freedom. So, it is creating that boundary within which you want to live.

Holly: Yeah, that makes sense. So, I think what we are saying is you don’t go 100% structure, 100% flow. But, it is like a spectrum and you need to be somewhere in between. So, what are your tips on how people can find that balance between structure and freedom? I know this is highly personal.

Joanna: It is highly personal, but I think really the two things that you need to do is to: #1 create a structure, right, so you create your weekly plan, you do your marketing at this time, and you do your client work on this time. And just batch stuff, just know loosely what you want to do with your week, and then the other thing is to check in with yourself regularly, right? And Jo Bendle, my coach, she teaches to – which I don’t do (sorry Jo!) – an end of the day review, so that you see what you have done, and what you haven’t done, and what you need to do the next day; so, you can switch it around at that point. So, it is constantly checking in. Is there anything else that needs to happen, does it still feel good, do I still even want to do this?

Holly: I think that one thing I have done on and off, over the years, that I have found really, really, useful is have a certain amount of time each day to get stuff done, and then I have got a whole list of stuff that I want to do and then I pick the three most important tasks from that list that I want to do that day, and I do those high priority things. So, it is like I have got this basket of stuff to do, and then pick: today I am going to do this, this and this. Either because that’s what I feel like doing, or because it is the most important; but I focus on just three things and if I get other stuff done, great, but I have done the three most important things.

Joanna: That’s really cool, because then you have that freedom to do whatever you feel like doing that day. And you could, if that’s important to you and you can’t do it every day, like I wouldn’t be able to do that every day, I have too much stuff on, I wouldn’t be able to fit that in every day, but you could like schedule that in on a Wednesday afternoon, as your free time to work, right? And you just pick and choose. I knew one lady who only did structured stuff in the mornings, and in the afternoons, she would watch tv – so, she had a products-based business, so she would watch tv and pack stuff and address envelopes. What a cool life is that!

Holly: I like that! Structure in the morning, packing in the afternoon.

Joanna: Yeah and like with the tv on even. Whatever it is that you like doing, whatever it is that makes your life pleasant, I think we need to build that into whatever structure we choose, right? I like to have time to just surf on the web; I know that’s a productivity ‘no, no’ to just scroll on Facebook, but I actually really enjoy it. I am no longer doing it daily, but on a Saturday morning, instead of doing something productive, I love to just go onto the internet and read this email, and read this post, and maybe watch this video somebody posted…and just do that. And if I don’t have that time then I really crave it the following week, and then I spend most of my time trying not to scroll on Facebook.

Holly: Right, but that’s a conscious decision that you are making to spend a half-an-hour or so.

Joanna: Or more!

Holly: {laughing} Or more, just playing around on the internet.

Joanna: But that’s it, it is a self-awareness. I know that I like that, just as I like creating images, which I am really crap at! This is not one of my skills, but I really enjoy it. So, once in a while I will let myself do that, so that means that I am not missing out on that and I am not craving whatever it is that that gives me during the week. Then I can be more productive, right?

Holly: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s important.

Joanna: Please tell me that you have stuff like that too?

Holly: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah; I have designed podcast graphics for podcasts that I probably will not ever start. I had an idea for a podcast and I was like: oh, I should do the graphic for it. {laughing} So, I had this beautiful graphic that I love but I am probably not going to start the podcast because I don’t need a second podcast. {laughing}

Joanna: Probably not, no…

Holly: So, I get what you mean. I get these creative cravings where I have to design something, or I don’t know. Yeah, I love it.

Joanna: Although, that also reminds me that you have been careful, for anybody that is listening, when those cravings come. For example, I had the biggest craving to redesign my Facebook group banner, right in the middle of my last launch. And really, I was like: oh, my goodness I have to drop everything, this banner has to be resigned right now. And thankfully, I caught myself. I was like: what? Clearly this banner can wait until next week. Clearly, I have other more important things that need to happen today. {laughing}

Holly: Okay, that’s really, really, important, because it is about stepping back and looking at the bigger picture of the day, and the week, and the month, and your plan, and seeing if that creativity craving is actually a self-sabotage or a way to procrastinate doing the bigger stuff.

Joanna: That’s like we said at the beginning right, that’s the self-awareness, and that’s a journey and that’s not going to happen overnight. And it is also like, I find that a lot of this stuff is allowing yourself to be yourself. I have a lot of clients who have multiple interests, and multiple ideas, like a lot of creatives. You are like that, I am like that, right? And it is like we spend a lot of time talking about how to choose that next one, right? And you just have to allow yourself to have them. There is a not a judgement on that, it is okay that you have lots of ideas; yes, it is better to choose one now, but you don’t have to choose only one forever. You can choose one thing now and another thing next month.

Holly: Exactly. But you can only do one thing at a time.

Joanna: You can only really do one thing at a time, because otherwise your attention is too dispersed.

Holly: Okay, so another thing I wanted to talk about was content planning. Because that’s something that you have been adopting lately and it has been working really well for you, and it is something that I never manage to do. So, let’s look at content planning.

Joanna: Yeah, it works pretty well for me- please don’t judge me by my lapsed podcast {laughing}. It works really well for me, but really the only way it worked was by leaving in blanks. So, I am not the kind of person who could create, or even plan, my whole content for the year. But, I can probably say: okay, I want to be talking about this in this month; and this in this month. And some possible ideas are this and this; and then I will leave some space for inspiration, as well. So, I don’t plan it all, I kind of half-plan.

Holly: So, you have a theme for each month?

Joanna: Not even, it is not even that, that I don’t like because then I get too kind of… I work with several different topics, but I try to vary the posts or episodes, that I am creating. So, on my blog I will have the podcast show notes when I record an episode, and now I have started doing book reviews as well, because I used to be a book blogger and I really missed that, so I will have book reviews. And then I will have posts that relate more to business maybe, and posts that relate to spirituality, and posts that relate to the law of attraction. And when I plan I make sure to have: one on this broader subject; one on this broader subject and then we will see. So, it is really only half-planned, and that is the only thing that has ever worked for me. I have never been able to stick to a proper content calendar.

Holly: Yeah, neither have I and I have always wanted to, because I love the idea of a content calendar; and right before the holidays I was looking for: what would be a fun book I could get for Christmas? And I ended up not getting anything, I was just buying novels, and reading novels. But, I saw this book that was a journal to create your content planner for your blog. And I thought this is so much fun! And then I realised, am I actually going to use it? And the reality is, no.

Joanna: I bought that… or something similar, I have that.

Holly: And?

Joanna: And I never used it.

Holly: It is so attractive though, I want it, but I know that I’m not going to use it.

Joanna: I am going to question you on this, do you really want the content calendar? I feel like, I thought I wanted the content calendar, what I want is for my content to be sorted. I think, for me, it is that. I want that ease of knowing that it is all there.

Holly: Yeah, I think that’s it, it is like trusting in myself that I have content for an entire year, every year, ongoing. And not getting up to: oh my god, what am I going to talk about on the next podcast episode? Because, my podcast, used to be pure interviews and that was super-easy because I had a massive spreadsheet of people I wanted to talk with. Then when I was doing more solo episodes, it was like: oh my god, what if I can’t think of anything to say this week? And now I am doing even more solo episodes, than before, and I am finding that the solo episodes are the ones that I usually record a week or two before they go live, so I am not recording like 8 weeks in advance like I used to, but it is like I will get struck with this inspiration for a topic, and then boom I do it and it just works. So, I kind of feel like I am living on the edge; and I wish I had that, I just like the idea and the safety net of having a content plan but really, I am working fine.

Joanna: Well, that’s it, it is actually that spiritual discussion, because instead of that safety net, instead of need – again I am going to bring it back to money, I don’t know why I am bringing everything back to savings, but it is exactly that same thing. When I was working on, I wanted a certain amount of money saved as a safety net before I took a certain decision in my life, and I remember the coach I was working with at the time, she was a law of attraction coach, and she was like: but that’s actually not trusting the universe, right? You are basically saying: I probably won’t do very well.

Holly: Yeah, yeah!

Joanna: [Believing that] I will probably run out of things to say, so it will be nice to have the safety net for when that happens. And, so, it is really that trust piece that’s important, right? That whatever inspiration you get, is exactly what needs to come through at that point. And I think that’s really interesting, there was time when, we have spoken about this, we were supposed to do a challenge weren’t we at some point, to keep each other accountable, but I would start my day by like tuning into my guides, and channeling specifically like: what am I meant to teach? This was when I was stepping into that role, of a spiritual teacher. I was like: fine, you guys, if I am a teacher what am I going to teach? So, I would start my day by channeling what I was supposed to talk about and it wasn’t… I could never have planned that, the topics that I was getting these downloads on, weren’t topics that I would have thought of, that I had anything to say about really even sometimes, but it was fantastic, and people resonated, because it was in the moment and so everybody was in that same energy and people loved it.

Holly: Yes, the same things happens to me when I write my newsletters, on the rare occasion that I do, and I write what’s going on for me in the moment. Those are the newsletters when people hit reply and they are like: oh my god, me too, I am going through the same thing. And that’s the kind of thing that I feel I am going to miss out on, if I had a content calendar.

Joanna: But you can always leave … This is where that flexibility comes in, and that playing with that balance between the structure and the flow, right? Because you can leave space for that, it is really like, it is almost like structuring in…

Holly: Structuring in… flexibility.

Joanna: Which kind of logically doesn’t make any sense but it is that, right? So, planning in a half-day every day to channel content; or one day a week writing something that’s just in the moment.

Holly: Exactly. So, you were sitting down for half-an-hour every morning and channeling content. So, you had the structure of sitting down and channeling content, but you didn’t know what was going to come through. It wasn’t like: today I am going to channel x; then I am going to channel y.

Joanna: Exactly and I didn’t know where that content would be good for. So, I didn’t know, it wasn’t like: okay, so it’s a Tuesday, and in this group, this is: #askaquestion day, whatever, I am going to channel a question now. I would channel a paragraph on something and then I would be like: okay, what am I going to do with this now? Sometimes it would be just a Facebook post and sometimes it would be, in fact I actually did both, because I have learned to repurpose stuff. So, I would do a Facebook post, and then some group hashtag post and then I would split it up into sentences for Twitter {laughing} but I ended up expanded into a whole blog post, or a podcast episode. So, you can do a lot with that, with just a paragraph, it wasn’t even half-an-hour, it didn’t take very long, but the structure was there. And this was in addition to actual structure itself. So, this was in addition to actual planned content that was going towards something that I was working on, a launch of something, or a program or whatever.

Holly: So, what would be your biggest tip for someone who is listening to this and they are like: how do I find my balance between structure and intuition?

Joanna: I think you need to start with the structure, right now, we are recording this in January, and I had this conversation with my soul space group today, pretty much my answer to any question anybody asks was: you need to give yourself that space to dream about what you want first. I think you have to know what you want, you have to know what that goal is. If you don’t know what your business will look like, or what your project will look like, or what you are creating, specifically, then focus on a feeling. And if your goal then is to be happy, then you can even plan in half-an-hour a day of happy time. See what comes up? What would make you happy that day? It is a reminder to stay aligned with the goals. So, start with the vision, and then work backwards, and see what that means for today, how you could bring that in for today.

Holly: Exactly, and play around with it, see what works for you. I think this is very much a trial and error thing; because like we said, it is probably a spectrum, it is probably not going to be 100% intuition, or 100% structure, it is going to be somewhere I in between. So, try time-blocking and see if it works for you, if it doesn’t try something else. Keep playing with it and be aware that it is going to take time to find what works for you, because so often I think that we want to just follow someone else’s blueprint and be like: I am going to download her PDF with her blueprint for her thingy, and I am going to apply it, and it is going to be perfect, and it is not because it is her blueprint no yours, so you have got to play around.

Joanna: Definitely play around with it, we are all different, we all have different needs, different energy levels at different times, all sorts of things. We definitely have to play around. How about you Holly, then, what would you suggest? I am curious now.

Holly: I would say, I love time-blocking, so I would say maybe start out by blocking out time in your calendar for the stuff that you know that you know you have to do like eat. {laughing} And then block out some time if you have got kids, block out kid-time stuff, to pick up the kid from school – whatever you do with kids! {Both: laughing} I’m sorry! Whatever it is that kids need! {laughing}

Joanna: Yeah, they also need to eat! {laughing}

Holly: So, do all the stuff that you have to do, because that will show you how much free time you have in your calendar. Then, block in the self-care stuff, the personal stuff that is going to keep you aligned, and on track, and your soul happy. And then, see how much time you have to do the business stuff that you want to do, and where it fits in and how you want to do it. And pay attention – and this has been really, really, important to me – how does your mind work throughout the day? Are you a super-morning person? Are you an evening person? Are you an afternoon person? When is your brain good at doing stuff? And, plan your day around that if you can.

Joanna: I think the most important thing is just to start, right?

Holly: Yeah, just do something.

Joanna: Choose something and try it out and see what works and then tweak. Remembering that the most important thing is that you feel good; because that’s the good energy and you will be in a good space, and you will attract more good stuff.

Holly: Because if you hate your business, because you are too busy doing stuff all day, then what’s the point?

Joanna: Oh my god, that was so me a couple of years ago, okay. I’m so glad not to be there anymore. I remember I thought I had to post in all of the groups, and most of the time in the evening my husband would be like handing me my dinner; and I would be like: just one more it is market day {laughing} it was ridiculous! I’m really happy to say that it is possible to find that balance, even if you are an intuitive and want to go with the flow more or feel like structure would stifle you; that is not necessarily the case, you just need to find the right structure for you, right?

Holly: And you can make your structure flexible.

Joanna: Totally.

Holly: It doesn’t have to be like in iron bars.

Joanna: Certainly not, it is not jail.

Holly: {laughing}

Joanna: It is supposed to support you, right?

Holly: Exactly!

Joanna: The thing to remember, it is =supposed to support you, so if it is not helping you to achieve your goals, then you need a different system.

Holly: Exactly, exactly. So, Joanna, if a client came to you and was like: I’m not getting anything done with my business, I have all these things that I want to do, I have goals, I am not achieving my goals, I like to go with the flow, and I am really afraid of structure, what should I do? How would you work with that client?

Joanna: I think, I mean, I always start with the end-result in terms of how do you want to feel? It is not necessarily, what do you want to create? But, how do you want to feel? And then we work backwards, and we bring that back, in terms of choosing what to focus on. So, I definitely encourage people to focus on something, to choose something, what are you creating now? That something should be leading you towards how you want to feel, obviously. So, if you want to feel like joyful in your business, don’t make the next task something that really hate.

Holly: Or outsource it to someone else.

Joanna: Yeah, you can do that. So, for choosing what to focus on, I always talk about following your highest excitement, which comes from Bashir, it is something we can link to as well. He always speaks about that, he is a channeled entity, like Abraham. So, follow the choice of highest excitement. Which of the things on your list excites you most? And of course, all of us will have things that have to get done. We have to pick up the kids from school presumably.

{Both: laughing}

Joanna: And, so, there will be things. But most things probably don’t have to get done. You don’t have to do a lot of the things that people say that you have to do, and I think online business is such a great example of that. There are also examples of people who are totally, super, super, super, successful, and they did that without a list, without a website, without a newsletter, without any of the things that we think now…

Holly: Without posting in 30 Facebook groups a day…{laughing}

Joanna: Right. And so, the possibilities are really endless which is why we follow that point of highest excitement; so, I would start with that intention of how you want to feel, work backwards, and then support that person in following their highest excitement, step-by-step towards how they want to feel.

Holly: I like that.

Joanna: How about you?

Holly: So, I work with the mindset side of things, so I would obviously first start out with: what do you want to achieve; what do you want to do in your business; what are your goals? But, because I work more with the mindset than with the practical action, kind of thing, we do create an action plan at the end, but it is more like: what do you need to believe in order to make that happen? Who do you need to be? How do you need to step up? How do you need to show up to make that happen? What are your current beliefs about your ability to achieve this goal? What are your current beliefs about taking action? What do you need to believe instead? Like, picking apart the mindset side of things, and then using a technique, usually heart-centred-energy-work, to re-program beliefs at the subconscious level. So that you believe at that very deep level that you can do this, you are capable of doing this: writing blog posts is easy for you, sales are easy… whatever. Oftentimes, and I was just thinking about this this morning, a lot of the work I do with people involves making business easier. So, what are the beliefs you need to make business easier, and to do the stuff that you need to do more easily rather than uphill slogging all the time.

Joanna: Yeah, the same for me, my work is about success being easier and it’s the same. I think that’s what we all want, right? In the end, we all want to do what we love and get paid for it and enjoy our lives. So, anything that helps with that is great.

Holly: Exactly, including structure.

Joanna: Including structure, indeed.

Holly: Alright, so shall we wrap this up? I think we have given people enough to chew on here. Lots of ideas to play around with and figure out where they sit on the spectrum between structure and intuition.

Joanna: Definitely, that’s a lot to play with. Just remember, if you are feeling overwhelmed, choose something {laughing}

Holly: Pick one thing.

Joanna: Your highest excitement whichever one you are most curious about, or feels most kind of buzzy, do that one for now.

Holly: Exactly.

Joanna: Do that one for now.

Holly: Don’t try all the things.

Joanna: No, don’t try all the things. And, let us know right? I would love to know how this works out for people.

Holly: Yeah, exactly so we are going to put all of our links in the show notes. But where can people find you? Where is the best place to get in touch?

Joanna: Gosh… this shouldn’t be a had question? {laughing} So, I have a website at http://joannahennon.com and I run a group called The Greatness Collective on Facebook, so those are probably the best places to find me, but I am Joanna Hennon across all social media, so you feel free to message me or tweet at me or whatever.

Holly: Alright good, you can either email me at: [email protected] or you can go to my website: hollyworton.com and see my links to all my stuff, including Facebook. Alright! See you next time.

Joanna: Bye!

~~~~~~~

Holly: I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. Please drop me a line and let me know what you thought of this week’s show, you can email at: [email protected] or you can find me on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram and get in touch. I would love to give you a shout out on the show if you would like to share your perspectives.

Also, I would love for you to join me in my private Facebook group, I know I say this every week, but podcasting is very much a one-way-conversation, I was just talking at you, and so was Joanna, for the last 45 minutes. So, I would love for you to join me in the private Facebook group, Joanna is also a member, so you can get in touch with her there. And let us know what you thought of the episode, we would love to you have your feedback. It is a group dedicated to exploring business mindset, how you can get the mindset you need, or want to achieve your dream. So, I would love to see you in there, you can go to: https://www.hollyworton.com/group and you will be redirected to the Facebook group.

Finally, whether you have been listening to this show for a while, or if you have just heard your first episode, if you are drawn to learning more about mindset work, and you would like to learn more about how you can work with me; please get in touch or head over to https://www.hollyworton.com/call and you can book in a call with me to learn more, I would love to work with you and help you transform your mindset.

Thanks again for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a quick review on itunes it would really mean the world to me, and I love reading them, so thank you. And remember to visit https://www.hollyworton.com/235 for the show notes on this episode.

Next week’s episode:

Next week, I will back back with something special, as I said this year we are doing a new format for the podcast so each month you will have two solo episodes from me; one episode with Jo Casey; one episode with my quarterly co-host which for the first quarter is Joanna Hennon. And then on those rare occasion where there is a fifth Monday in the month, you will be getting something a little special that I don’t do very often in the podcast so tune in next week and you will get to listen to that! Thank you very much for listening and have a great day!