288 Joanna Hennon + Holly ~ How to Know Which Investments to Make in Your Personal & Professional Development

Today’s Guest

Table of Contents

Joanna Hennon and I are back with another co-hosted episode! Today, we talk about how to know which investments to make in your personal and professional development. There is so much information out there, and there are so many courses, coaches, and online programs. How can you possibly know which ones are the right ones for you? And how can you avoid making a bad investment? And…is there actually such a thing as a bad investment?

More About Joanna Hennon

Joanna is a #SoulSmart Success Mentor – she helps people to easily create more success by using the wisdom and power we all have access to at soul level. Living life from a place of soul power, in tune with your higher self and your Guides, and using the Law of Attraction with intention will literally change your life! To get started, grab one of these free resources.

Listen to this episode

What You’ll Learn

How to know what to spend your money on
How to choose which courses/programs/professionals are right for you
Bad investments we’ve made in the past and why we think they were not a good investment
Questions you need to ask yourself to help you get clear on whether or not something is right for you
Whether or not excitement is a clear signal that it’s the right thing to buy
How to make decisions based on love, rather than fear
How to resist fear of missing out if we don’t sign up for something
Why we sometimes get caught up in the “now or never” mentality
Why it’s not always the right time for a particular program or topic
Why you need to pay attention to what you’re drawn to + trust that’s what’s right for you
Why courses need to be in alignment with where you want to be
How much is too much for you to spend
What you need vs what you want
Why you may need accountability to actually do the work (and how to get that)
Whether or not it’s okay to put it on a credit card + go into debt
How to make a conscious decision whether or not to sign up for something
What to do when offers feel irresistible
How to avoid spontaneous purchases
What to do if you’re addicted to learning
Whether or not we always need to be investing in learning or working with someone
How much support you actually need + what is the best way for you to get it
It’s not just what you spend money on, it’s also what you spend time on

Things We Discussed

Connect with Joanna

How to Subscribe

Click here to subscribe via iTunes
Click here to subscribe via RSS
Click here to subscribe via Stitcher

Help Spread the Word

If you enjoyed this episode, please head on over to Apple Podcasts or iTunes and kindly leave us a rating and a review! You can also subscribe, so you’ll never miss an episode.

Related episodes

Transcript

The transcript for this episode can also be downloaded here (no opt-in required).

Holly: Hello and welcome to the Into the Woods podcast, episode 287. This is your host Holly Worton, and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Joanna Hennon. Today, we talk about how to know which investments to make in your personal and professional development. There is so much information out there and there are so many courses, coaches, and online programs, how can you possibly know which ones are the right ones for you? How can you avoid making a bad investment? And, is there actually such a thing as a bad investment? I know that I have spent money on things in the past that I personally consider to be a bad investment, I have spent money on things that I consider to be a great investment, Joanna has very similar stories.

So, today, we share very specific stories, from our personal experiences, and we hope to guide you on how you can figure out what things are the best investment for you in your life. Now, this is something that I think is really important, particularly at this time of year, because, this is when a lot of coaches, and a lot of online business owners, start getting ready to launch their things. The year has started, we are a couple of weeks into the New Year, and it is time to sell you stuff. So, we hope to help you make the best investments for your own personal and professional developments this year, and in the future.

So, this is a long one. We speak for about an hour, I think, and here is what you are going to learn: how to know what to spend your money on; how to choose which coaches, courses, programs are right for you; we talk about bad investments that we have made in the past and why we think they were not a good investment. We include questions that you need to ask yourself to help you get clear on whether or not something is right for you. And, again, this is about what is right for you personally as an individual, this stuff is highly personal, what is right for me may or may not be right for you. We discuss whether or not excitement is a clear signal that it is the right thing to buy. We talk about how to make decisions based on love, rather than fear. How to resist fear of missing out if we don’t sign up for something. Why we sometimes get caught up in the now or never mentality: I have got to sign up for this thing now or I will never be able to do it in the future. We discuss why it is not always the right time for a particular program or topic and how sometimes it might be the right time next year, or later on down your lifetime. We discuss why you need to pay attention to what you are drawn to, and trust that that is the thing that is right for you. We discuss why courses need to be in alignment, not with where you are now but with where you want to be, and this is a really important piece. We discuss how much is too much for you to spend, what you need vs. what you want. Why you may need accountability to actually do the work, because just by signing up for a course, it doesn’t mean that you are magically going to get the results that people are promising you. We talk about whether to put something on a credit card and go into debt to take a program. We discuss how to make a conscious decision whether or not to sign up for something. We talk about how to avoid spontaneous purchases, what to do when offers feel irresistible, and what to do if you are addicted to learning, because I think a lot of us are. We discuss whether or not we always need to be investing in something, whether that is through learning through an online course, through working with someone, do we always have to a coach or a program or a thing that we are learning? We talk about how much support you actually need and what is the best way for you to get it. Finally, we discuss how it is not just what you spend money on, it is also what you choose to spend your time on. So, I hope you find this episode interesting and useful, it is a really juicy one, we really enjoyed doing it, and I look forward to hearing your feedback. So, without further ado, here’s the episode.

Holly: Hello Joanna!

Joanna: Hi Holly!

Holly: How are you doing?

Joanna: I am good! How are you?

Holly: Good, I am looking forward to today’s topic.

Joanna: Me too! This came together quite quickly didn’t it?

Holly: Yeah it did, sometimes we struggle to find a topic and sometimes the first or second thing that we come up with, and this came together really easily. I think this is also a really timely topic because it is going to be January when this goes live, lots of people will be putting out lots of offerings, new courses, new programs, new stuff to learn, new stuff to invest in, and how do you tell if it is right for you?

Joanna: I think it is so difficult to be in that space where you want to achieve something, or build something, or grow something and there are all these people telling you that their thing will help you do that, you can’t actually buy them all, there are so many there now and you can’t actually buy them all, so you have to make some choices and how do you do that?

Holly: Yeah, not only that, I think people are so skilled at copywriting these days and they have been for the last several years that it can be really irresistible, it can feel like: I need this thing when actually it is just well-written copy that speaks to you or speaks to that part of you…

Joanna: If you are in that: I need this thing or I am going to die space, then I just suggest that you sleep on it {laughing}. That is for any kind of purchase, that’s what I started doing and that definitely helped. This is slightly off topic, but this is why people on what they call “discovery calls” want to make you decide right in the moment, because once you sleep on it you might decide that it is actually not the right time, or not the right thing for you, and those people are going to tell you that that is just resistance etc, but that’s not necessarily the case, so take the time you need to think about what you are buying.

Holly: Absolutely, and not only that, even if you allowed a cooling off period, how likely are you going to be to email them and be: hey I really didn’t want to sign up for that, can I get my money back? That’s hard, to ask for your money back.

Joanna: Yes, so just give yourself some time. So, how to know what to spend your money on? Where do we start? What are you committing to for the coming year, Holly?

Holly: Not much, so I have already committed to, and started making payments on, my plant-spirit initiation program that I am doing, it is a nine-month program, starting in March of next year and, before March, I have got a couple of prerequisite classes that I have to take to get ready for that. So, that’s the main focus for next year, and I am so excited about this because ever since I experienced my first plant-initiation workshop, with the woman I am doing this training with, Suneet, I walked out of that day thinking, I want to do this, I want to be able to facilitate this for other people. A year has gone by since then, she mentioned the last time I saw her that she was going to offer this, and the second she said it I thought: this is what I want, this is what I have been wanting to learn and I am so excited. I immediately said to her: sign me up for it, how do I pay you for it? {laughing} I knew it was it, and I am so excited about it, that was the main thing.

Joanna: What you just said brings up an important part, for me, the main answer and the main point about this topic is that what you are investing in needs to be aligned with where you want to go. So, you said that you want to be able to facilitate this for other people and in fact this kind of stuff has been part of your medium to long-term plan for a long time. So, it makes sense for you to invest in a course that will teach you some of those skills that you want to be using with people, right?

Holly: Absolutely, so I am super-excited about that and I knew in every cell of my being that it was the right thing.

Joanna: I just want to pick up on your excitement because I don’t think that excitement, even though we talk a lot about, and I talk a lot about, how you need to feel excited about the choices you are making, they need to feel good to you and all that. I, actually, when it comes to spending money and investing in courses, and personal professional development, I don’t think that excitement is a good measure. Because what certainly happens to me is that I get really excited on the start of any new journey, any new thing, so I am going to be excited about anything that I buy {laughing}, whether it is something that is aligned with where I want to go, or not, or whether it is actually going to distract me from what I have committed to focus on in my life and business.

Holly: As you say that I am reminded of this one thing that I signed up for years ago, which is something I always highlight as the worst business investment that I made, which was something that I wasn’t excited about. I signed up for it because a friend of mine had done the program a couple of years prior and it had gotten her amazing results, obviously she had put in the work as well, but it was the thing that changed her business. I kept going back and forth, back and forth: should I sign up for this, should I not sign up for it, I don’t know. I was talking to her and in a period of about 48 hours I was all over the board: I am doing it, I am not doing it, I don’t know what to do and I finally signed up for it and it was like: okay, it is done, I made the decision, I transferred the money. I wasn’t excited about it, I was doing it because I wanted the results that she got, for me, and I thought that this was the thing that was going to do it and I made the decision, let’s be honest, based out of fear. I was not excited about it and actually it is still one of the biggest business investments I have made, and I am not proud of that.

Joanna: I think that is a huge thing, excitement can’t be your only guide, it kind of needs to be in there as well, you need to really believe in the thing that you are buying and that distinction between love and fear is really important here. So, ask yourself, if you are considering something: are you buying this out of love for yourself? So, is it something that you know will support you in a really loving and beautiful way that feels good to you and is aligned with your values and what you want out of your life and lifestyle, or is it a decision made out of fear of missing out? That if you don’t buy it then you are not going to get the results?

Holly: I really suffer from the fear of missing out thing, I still have the fear of missing out because of the thing that you recently signed up for, and the event you recently went to that I didn’t go to, that I really was not drawn to go to, I didn’t want to go, and I didn’t go, and I feel like I missed out.

Joanna: That’s really funny, so what Holly is referring to is, I went to an event organised by Ann Wilson, the Wealth Chef, and on the back of that I signed up with a couple of girlfriends to work with Ann Wilson for a year; and this is a big investment both in money and time. So this is really a focus for our year and, yeah, I think you were really clear, you know we are all friends and we wanted Holly to come with us, basically {laughing}, so, that was totally on the table and Holly even came and had dinner with us.

Holly: Yes, instead of going to the event I had dinner with you guys.

Joanna: You were really clear that this wasn’t the right thing for you, so you have to think: once the thing is past, you have to trust that that was the right choice for you and none of these things are one-offs. There will be another round next year and I think we get stuck in this, “it is now or never” place and the marketing and the copywriting really makes us go into that place. This is in fact one of the reasons why my soul space communities, my membership group, why I decided to have doors always open. I don’t it should be: you join now, or you will never get this done. I want my members to join when they feel it is the right thing for them, rather than because of my schedule, I decided that I am going to close it in February. {laughing}

Holly: Or because you want to create a sense of urgency.

Joanna: Yes, fake urgency. So, I don’t really, I don’t like that, and I think we need to be really just in-tune with what is happening for us when we are debating on whether to purchase something or not; and it is not always the right time, it is not always the right time to spend a whole year focussing on wealth, it is not always the right time to focus on your business, it is not always the right time to hire a one-to-one coach.

Holly: Yeah, and I think that’s a really good point and that reflecting back on the kinds of things that I have invested in, over the course of the last year, now, when this comes out, 2018, it was all non-business stuff, with the exception of my book-launch coach. I did a lot of outdoors stuff, I did my lowland leader training, I did my wild camping, I did my navigations courses. I did do this one thing with Lisa Lister that was on the Venus codes and connecting with feminine energy and writing and expressing yourself, but it was mostly non-business stuff and non-writing stuff. So, sometimes it is the right time to invest in business stuff, sometimes it is the right time to invest in personal stuff.

Joanna: Yes, and I think we also have to stop putting them in these categories as well, because there is no personal and business stuff,

Holly: It is all related, yes.

Joanna: We are whole beings and we are taught to put things into these categories, these separate pots, but they are not necessarily and who is to say that what you invested you in, isn’t going to move you further in your general life goals? We talk a lot about business goals, but in fact a lot of these business goals are based on how we want our life to look and what lifestyle we want and how we want to feel. So I think they are really connected.

Holly: Yeah, absolutely, everything is connected, and I still have the tendency to put things into pots: my business life and my life, life, my personal life. It is all connected, the personal development that you do affects your business, or career, and the business stuff that you do affects your personal life, it all lifts you up.

Joanna: Oh completely, you know I did this wealth course journey that I have committed to for the next year, you could argue that it is a personal thing, right? Because I want to learn how to manage my money and how to invest and whether I should buy property or not, and all those kinds of things. I want to be comfortable making those decisions based on understanding the market and all these things that I should have probably learned in college, but maybe wasn’t paying enough attention. It is already affecting my business because, for example, because of the way I have now structured our finances I am finding that the best, easiest, way that I can weave my business finances into my entire life, is to make sure that I pay myself a salary, which I have never done. And, so, it is making me restructure my business stuff as well and make sure that I am actually paying myself which is something that everybody who is teaching about money and finance in your business specifically says you should do from as early on as possible, even if it is a really low amount.

Holly: Yes, yes.

Joanna: It is something that I have kind of known but I didn’t really do, so the shifts are there, whether you want to call it a personal or business thing the shifts are across the board. So, I think you have to pay attention to what you are drawn to.

Holly: Yes!

Joanna: And trust that that is really the thing that you want right now. Yes, you should feel slightly excited about it, although excitement is a weird thing, I wasn’t really excited when I invested in Ann Wilson’s course for a year, because I was terrified, because it was a really big investment and I didn’t really know if I was the kind of person who could understand all this investment and money stuff and whether I even had enough money to be thinking about it to be honest. It wasn’t an excitement, it was more of a stretchy feeling, an alignment with where I want to be. I want to be the kind of person who manages finances well and who understands that world. For me that alignment piece is super, super important, more important than anything. Ask yourself: if this is going to take you to where you want to go?

Holly: I think obviously before you can do that, you need to know where you want to go, so you need to have done some planning and goal setting and visualisation onto where you want to be headed, in the next year, in the next x amount of years.

Joanna: And what those next priorities are, right? You can’t be focussing on all of it at the same time, so based on what you want to accomplish, let’s say, if we make it specific, what do you want to achieve, or create, or accomplish by the end of 2019 and then that’s what you invest in. Although, I think we do want to talk about being careful about that, Holly, because I certainly also made investments based on the result, so these people promised me a result and I paid them money, thinking that if I paid the money then I would get the result, but I wasn’t in the right place, to take the action that they wanted me to take, it wasn’t the right program for me; their advice wasn’t advice that resonated with me, so it was just stuff that maybe would have worked for someone else but not for me because I wanted to do things a bit differently, I hadn’t really figured out how I wanted to do things so it was very kind of convoluted and I didn’t get the results.

Holly: I think that’s one of the things that gets me so caught up in people’s copywriting, is I want the results, their copywriting speaks to me, and I think: I want that, I want that, I want that, even when sometimes I know I don’t like that person’s energy, and I don’t necessarily want to learn from them, but I want the results that they are promising in the copywriting. That’s part of the reason I signed up for that thing, all those years ago, because I didn’t resonate with her energy, she wasn’t someone that I really looked up to and wanted to learn from, but I wanted the results.

Joanna: I don’t think you would do that anymore, Holly, I think that is previous version Holly and I don’t do it anymore either, I certainly recognise that as an old pattern of mine as well to just look at those results. So you also have to think about whether you want to really learn from that person, so do you admire how they run their business? Or do you admire how they run their life? Whatever it is that you are trying to learn, it is not just about the results, it is about the values they represent. I don’t know, I always like to, I prefer to buy from people whom I would like to hang out. Ann Wilson was awesome to hang out with, I would totally have a drink with her, you know? Some of the people I bought from in the past I didn’t feel that way about, I felt they were too stiff, or too formal for me, or too whatever else, so I wouldn’t want to hang out with them. I would convince myself that that wasn’t a good measure, because I should put emotions to the side and just logically think: they have achieved the results, they know how to do that, they will teach me. I have come to realise that’s really important to me, that personal connection, so now I will only buy from people who I would really like to just hang out with.

Holly: I think that’s a really, really, good guideline, because when I think about the investments, I made in the past that I consider to be bad investments, they were with people I wouldn’t want to hang out with, because, our energies were different. When you are taking someone’s course, or online program, whatever, you are going to be in their energy for the duration of this thing. Do you want to hang out in their energy? Do you want to be in their energy, is this someone you want to be with? It is not like you are going to go down to the pub and have a pint with them, but you are going to be in their energy for the course, do you want to hang out with them in a learning capacity or any kind of capacity?

Joanna: I think it is such an important question to ask yourself, and just be really honest with yourself, about whether you really want what they have, and whether you really want to be running your business? I am going back to business because that’s kind of the decisions that come up for personal development, but it applies to any personal/professional development stuff, even buying somebody’s book, do you really want to be like them? Be really honest with yourself, is this really the sort of thing that appeals to you, that aligns with your values. If not, even if they can teach you, they are probably not the right person to teach you, that’s certainly the way I have learned to look at it.

Holly: Absolutely, there are so many teachers these days, there are so many people teaching a topic that is out there, just have some patience, know what you want to learn and what you want to work on and look and the person will show up, you will find them.

Joanna: Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Holly: Also, as you said earlier, it is all about the timing. There are things, this plant-spirit thing that I am doing next year, it is the right time to do it, it wouldn’t have been the right time last year, it wouldn’t have been the right time the year before, the timing is perfect, the teacher is perfect, the topic is perfect, it is all aligned.

Joanna: That’s what you need to look at, there will always be loads of course and loads of opportunities and lots of things to learn. I will allow myself just to buy things just for the love of learning as well, under a certain price. I sometimes buy things just to see how other people do things, just to experience something else. I sometimes buy things, just to learn, without any other goal in mind, just to see, you know. In fact, when I did my first PSYCH-K® workshop, I cannot believe I did my, I know this airs in January but when we are recording this it is still 2018, I was just looking at my year overview, making a list of all the things that happened, and I cannot believe that I only did my PSYCH-K® basic training back in March. So, it was just a few months ago, basically. I did that just on an intuitive nudge, I didn’t have a plan for it, I didn’t know how I would incorporate it into my work, nothing. Now it is such an integral part of everything I do, but it was originally done as personal development, rather than professional, so it is just weird how things work out.

Holly: Me too, that’s exactly how I signed up for PSYCH-K® as well, and then it became my life for years. {laughing}

Joanna: Yes, so it is funny, that wasn’t kind of attached to a goal, or aligned with a specific outcome, or what I wanted, although, I will say that for years and years I have been saying since I can so easily channel the guidance for people, as you know Holly, within two seconds, just all this stuff comes through, I have always wanted also a way of shifting the energy for people. So I have been on the lookout for something and it was aligned with that in a way, even though I didn’t know it would quite fit in as well as it has, so it was aligned. So, for 2019, just ask yourself: what do you want, what is the priority for this year, what is your focus? Buy things that are aligned with that, or if you like, buy things just to learn, allow yourself to do that within some kind of limit. You know, yeah, and make your choices based on that.

Holly: So, let’s talk about that because, a couple of times, in the past few minutes, you have mentioned a limit on spending. So, how much is too much to spend? How do you know if something is too much for you, how do you set personal boundaries and guidelines in terms of spending on stuff like this?

Joanna: I have learned to set some limits on things that I don’t necessarily need, but I am interested in. I love to learn, I am a serial learner, I love to learn new methods and new tools and new information, I just love this sort of thing, whether in business or not in business. So, I have a limit for, it is not an actual limit, I can’t tell you: I will only buy it if it is under $100, it is not a limit like that, but it is something that I consider, if it is not aligned with where my business is headed, or where I am headed, then I question the amount of money and also the amount of time. So, for example, I would love to learn about astrology, but the course that I came across, it was a 12-week course, with a gazillion modules, and I thought just for the love of learning I don’t have time for that.

Holly: Also, I think it is important to look at, how the courses run and what your preferred method of learning is, because also, I hate videos, I that that typical online course that has got videos, and audio, and worksheets, like all the crap. I just, it just feels so overwhelming, courses that have so much shit in them, that you have to have a checklist of: did I do this, did I do this, because there is so much that you get lost in there. Lisa Lister’s course, the Venus Codes, that I did a couple of months ago, it was perfect, you got an email every day, she had a thing a listen to, a ten-minute audio thing to listen to, not every day, sometimes, journal prompts, stuff to think about, stuff to meditate on, but it was an email every day. You couldn’t get lost because you just got an email, it was so good for me.

Joanna: You see I would hate that, that would immediately send me into spiral overwhelm, if I got a thing to do every day, and by day three I didn’t do it and then I had three-days’ worth of things to think about, and journal on, that would just drive me crazy.

Holly: Okay.

Joanna: So, I like the courses where there are lots of things that I have access to, and I can say: okay, this week I am going to look at on Wednesday between 7-8, and I will go in there and I will see what draws me in most and what I need. I like it when the calls are recorded, I don’t usually show up for live calls, I do the work on my own, that is fine. So, I don’t really pay attention to that, but I like a system where things are available to me and I can take them when I need.

Holly: Good, I love that we are so opposite on this, because {laughing} it is the perfect example. People listening, what is right for you and what do you like? Do you prefer video, do you prefer audio? I honestly prefer to read, I prefer books, I prefer an email. I don’t want to sit there and watch someone’s face talking for an hour and a half. Live calls vs. recorded stuff, when I go back and I think about the times when I have always showed up for the live calls, it was either because I was desperate to get something out of the course and I felt like I wasn’t getting it from the material, so I had to show up on the live calls, because that’s the only thing that might give me the thing that I wanted, or, because I loved the person and I wanted to hang out with them and be in their energy.

Joanna: For sure, I have very specific needs I wouldn’t watch a one-and-a-half hour video either, I would if I bought a workshop and I knew what I was buying, and then I would make the space to watch that, but for the rest. My best example, I think, is I recently bought Niamh Arthur’s Line It Up marketing, I have an affiliate link that we can link to in the show notes. It is a fantastic program, but I love the way it is set up and it is giving me so much inspiration in terms of how things can be made simple. Obviously, she teaches video, so all her stuff is video format, so I kind of miss the transcripts because I like to read as well.

Holly: Yes.

Joanna: But I am very well-aware that it is a video course {laughing} so I am not actually expecting transcripts. The way she does it is, she really breaks everything up into super-manageable chunks so I can just watch a 6-minute thing. I know that is part of the course, and the next day I can watch two 6-minute things, and I just love that. I don’t have to sit and watch her talk for hours on end, it is broken up and each title tells me exactly what I am going to learn in those 6, 7, or 8 minutes, or even 4, she has the at various lengths. I really, really, appreciate that because it means that she respects my time, you know, so I can go in if I have 4 minutes.

Holly: I love that, as you are telling this story, it is reminding me that yesterday, I discovered this new podcast on personal finance and investing and the guy has an online course. I instantly wanted to sign up for it and there is this coupon code if you listen to his podcast. It is really affordable, and it looks do-able, but it is all video. I am at the point where I want this information, I really like this guy, I want to learn from this guy, I trust this guy, but am I really going to watch the videos?

Joanna: That’s another thing to ask yourself: are you willing to put in the time? If it is videos then you have to put in your schedule probably a bit more time than for other things, to watch them. You can watch them on super-speed or something but…

Holly: I don’t learn that way, I am not the kind of person that listens to podcasts at super speed because I am not going to retain the information it will be like feeding my brain with words. So, yes, I am kind of at that point today where I am thinking: I really want this, but I am not sure it is right for me. I am leaning towards the yes, so I will update when this comes out {laughing}.

Joanna: That’s something that is really important, there is no point buying something that you can see requires an hour a day, or an hour a week, if you are not willing to put that in. That’s just really important, I have a whole chunk of time which actually I need to increase to do Ann Wilson’s stuff, to actually spend the time learning, and to spend the time implementing because you want to be doing both, to get your return on investment, right?

Holly: Yes, I think this is a very important thing. Something that I have done every time I have signed up for a program, is I have time-blocked chunks of time in my calendar to do it. Last year when we did Fabeku’s Money Lab, I blocked out a chunk of time Friday, for the calls when they were live and two hours earlier that day, to do the work. I probably should have done more, because that course was overwhelming, there was so much to do. But I always block out the time to make sure that I do it, otherwise it won’t happen.

Joanna: Well, exactly and case in point, I also bought that program and I did not block out any time, and guess which one of us actually completed the program, it is not me!

Holly: Excellent example again {laughing}.

Joanna: I am glad that my planning failures can help others! {laughing} In fact, just as I am thinking about this now, it is interesting to me that the only thing that I have ever blocked time out for is this Ann Wilson program. I think it is because it is such a high investment, that it is the first time that it has occurred to me to make sure that that time is blocked out. I am trying to think whether that is correct, but, yes, it is. I can’t remember any other time where I have blocked things out and really stuck to it in the same way.

Holly: That’s an interesting point, because that program that you are on right now is quite robust in terms of learning and one-to-one calls; but that is often one of the arguments that people selling high-level or high-investment things will make is, if people don’t pay a ton of money for it, they won’t put in the time. I don’t think that is necessarily true, but in fact in this particular case it looks like it has triggered a change in you in terms of how you approach the material.

Joanna: Yes, there are two things here, one is that we forgot to answer the question of how much is too much, which I do want to talk about in a minute. Also, just to make clear, yes it was a high investment, and I have now blocked out the time to do the work, but there are also other factors. One factor is that a monthly accountability call, where I set goals and this lady, this coach, she is going to call me on and I know that, she is a coach and she is not fluffy. I can’t get on that call and be like: oh, I didn’t do it! It is not a an email check-in that I can ignore, it is a call, and she is going to ask me, and because she is a coach, I imagine if I didn’t do it: well, why, why do you think that is? I do not want to have that conversation, so I prefer to just do it. So, that’s one thing. The other thing is that I am doing this course with two of my best friends, so we are kind of pushing each other, we are supporting each other, we are talking about it constantly, we have our own little meetings. If I see that they have moved forward on something then I can use the information they found to help me, all sorts of things. That is helping me a lot as well, in terms of support and moving forward. It isn’t only linked to the higher price, I don’t think so. It also, both formally within the course itself and outside of the course, I have a framework that keeps me supported and keeps me moving forward so I don’t just have to rely on myself and my calendar.

Holly: Absolutely.

Joanna: I just want to make that clear, because I actually don’t think it is necessarily true that people are more committed if they pay more. I have got lots of things that I paid a lot for and did not schedule {laughing}.

Holly: Yeah, I have bought lots of things that were much lower cost, like the Money Lab thing, that was $500, which isn’t a huge sum of money, it is not small change, but I really put in the time for that.

Joanna: People in my SoulSmart space pay a relatively low monthly amount of € 44 and there are people in there that show up for everything, they are so committed, it is amazing, and I love it and are getting so much out of the experience, because they are showing up. So, it is not necessarily a cost thing.

Holly: So, getting back to cost, which we didn’t necessarily discuss, how much is too much to spend? How do you know whether it is too much for you?

Joanna: I am a big believer in spending what you can afford, I really am. I do not subscribe to all these online business, new-age-y things of: if you pay more you will expand. If I didn’t have the money for the course I paid for, I wouldn’t have paid for it. I did have the money which was great, it was still uncomfortable, but at least, I don’t think you should put yourself in debt. I think only you will know what that is, and it is okay for it to be stretchy, but I don’t think you should suffer, I don’t think you should buy a business course and then not have money for food.

Holly: Absolutely not.

Joanna: That’s just not okay! This is the old way of doing business, of course, and making people think that if you don’t pay the high price then you are not investing in yourself. You know whether what you are considering is just a stretch, and if it is aligned with where you are going then it is probably worth it, but if you really can’t afford it and it is going to make you miserable making those payments, then it is just not the right choice because you still need to prioritise your vibration and you feeling good in your life.

Holly: Yeah, I am going to be honest here and I say that a lot of the stuff that I have learned I have put on a credit card. My coaching training, a lot of it that I did at the beginning, when I first moved to the UK, a lot of that went on credit cards. My PSYCH-K®, in the beginning, a lot of that went on credit cards, a lot of that went on credit cards, because I didn’t have the cash, I was not in a great place financially, but I knew I wanted to do that and I knew it would change my life and it did and I don’t regret it, even though it put me in a crappy financial spot.

Joanna: That’s okay, whereas I have been in a very fortunate financial position in the last few years where I didn’t have to put things on credit card, there were times in my life where I did put things on a credit card, and I didn’t always regret that either. I understand that if you don’t have the money then that might be an option, I totally believe that a credit card could be a help, right? But how can you be discerning? How did you know or how did you decide Holly, that those things were worth putting on a credit card and something else might not be?

Holly: Right, that’s an excellent question. With the PSYCH-K®, the basic workshop I did five years ago, when it was still just two days, so it was much less expensive, and I had the money and I paid for it. And I started using it every day and I saw how much it was changing my life, and so, I knew it was worth me continuing my education in that, even if I had to put it on a credit card and pay interest on it, because it totally changed my life. So, I knew that I got the results, I knew that I was going to continue getting the results, the results were so damn good that it was worth paying extra with the interest. So, that, for me, was a no-brainier. With the coaching stuff, I don’t regret any of the investments I made with my coaching training, because it was life-changing for me, and it gave me skills that helped me in my business and it was all good, good, stuff. It was all deep personal development stuff that also served my business, so.

Joanna: I think what you are illustrating is that it is okay if it is a conscious choice. A lot of my credit card spending in the past has been very head in the sand spending. I will just put it on the credit card, so it doesn’t exist {laughing}. If you know, if you are very conscious, that you are buying something that you believe, even if you are very wrong in the end, I think that is okay, if you in that moment truly believe that you have gone through that process of making sure that with the information you have in that moment, you feel like this thing is aligned with where you want to go, and it is aligned with your values, and you like the person, and that is all fitting, then that is a conscious choice to put it on a credit card and you know that you may have interest payments on that etc. Then you are just looking at return on investment, and, hopefully, once you implement the stuff, that’s where the implementation piece is really important, it is not just about attending the course and learning, it is about doing the things that you are learning so that you can make money, then you will make a profit, that’s clear. It is not about making rules about never doing this, or always doing that, it is, again, Holly and I talk about this all time, it is about being conscious in the moment, so that you are making that decision from a conscious powerful space, and not from a fear-of-missing-out space, or a panic/distress space. I have bought so many things from a panic/distress space, on a day were I felt really, really, distraught and hopeless about my business. Those are the days were I would be like: here, have $3,000 if you can fix this for me. then fine. Of course that’s not the time to make a decision, that’s when you sleep on it. If you still feel that way tomorrow, and consider whether that is still the thing that will help you move forward, right?

Holly: So, let’s talk about what to do when offers feel irresistible, how do you sleep on it, what will do? It is so agh, you want to click, but how do you get yourself to give it some time?

Joanna: Sometimes I click, sometimes I just click, you know. It is difficult to talk about it in a way because I feel like I have made so much progress on this. I used to be a real, I used to have a lot of problems actually with spending. I used to be a serial over-spender and got myself into a lot of financial trouble, when I was younger, because of this. This has been part of my journey to get to a place where I spend more consciously. I had to get to place where I understand that shopping is a fun activity for me, because I need to allow for that. So not everything I buy has to do have a point, it is just that I keep those things on the lower-end of scale price-wise. The bigger things that I spend need to be aligned with business goals and life goals. So, do I sleep on it? Actually sometimes I don’t. Last week, I don’t know what I was feeling, and I got an email from Elizabeth Peru and I was like: oh yes, I used to get the reports on the planetary movements, and I clicked on it and I just bought it, I signed up for a year. I was like, you know what, I just want that again, it is not expensive, and I just want it. That was kind of my process to make it okay for me to do that without judgment or guilt. I am very conscious with what I spend, and I also allow, I don’t call them blips or anything, I just allow myself to have some spending as just fun spending.

Holly: I think that’s important to have either a fixed budget for that, or something in your mind that will allow you to do that,

Joanna: Not everybody needs it, shopping, spending, it is not a fun activity for everyone, but if it is, then I think it is part of accepting who you are, rather than trying to be someone else.

Holly: Yeah, what I do, and it has really been helpful, in my Evernote, I have a page that’s stuff I want to buy. So anytime I see something and think: oh my god that’s so cool, I copy the link I put it in there. It is like my safety net, it is like: okay, it is in there, it is safe, I won’t forget that I want this thing that’s so cool, this thing that I want. Then whenever I am ready to buy something for myself, I go through that list and oftentimes, I am like: oh yeah, that would be cool, but I really don’t care anymore. I find myself cleaning up my list and removing things that I am no longer interested in.

Joanna: Yes, I picked that up from you Holly and I have to confirm, that that’s a really good way of deferring the decision and not denying yourself. Now, I also have a wish list in Evernote and when I remember, because I am still not as used to it as you are, when I remember I do put stuff in it. I had the same experience, actually, I added something, I don’t remember what it was, and I was like: oh I have got to have this! Then I though okay I am just going to add it to the list the other thing that was on there I didn’t even want any more, which I thought was really weird. Now I can’t even remember what it was that I absolutely had to have, that’s actually a great way to do it.

Holly: The same thing I do with my Amazon Wishlist, I have so much stuff on my Amazon Wishlist and every once in a while, I go through it and think: why did I want to read that book…delete.

Joanna: I just did that with my Amazon Wishlist as well. I used to be a book blogger, so I had a gazillion books that you are supposed to read, if you are an intelligent reader, and I am never going to read them, because I prefer to read chicklit {laughing}.

Holly: So, one thing that I think we have kind of touched but we need to answer is: what to do if you are addicted to learning? I think a lot of us, we want to learn more, we just want to learn stuff and feed our brains, so what do you do if you want more stuff to learn?

Joanna: I just think you either have to have a slot in your calendar for learning and see if you don’t have anything new to learn then buy something new, sure. I have a budget for that, I think you just need to manage it and then get into the habit of consciously making your decisions. What we are saying here is good not just for spending, it is good for everywhere in your life, you need to get into the habit of making conscious decisions and not just kind of falling into things.

Holly: Yeah, absolutely. Do we always need to be investing in something? I know people always say: you have got to have a coach, you have always…do we always need to be signed up for a course, or working one-to-one with someone?

Joanna: I think that depends, I have so much on my plate, personally, that I need to always be working with someone, because, otherwise, I don’t do stuff, I don’t get it done, I take too much time off, basically. I actually find it very useful.

Holly: I tend to go in waves, this year I did a lot of spot things, a lot of the outdoor stuff I did was one weekend here, one weekend there. It got to the point where I was so overwhelmed with my calendar at one point, that I cancelled one of the things that I had signed up for because it was just too much, even thought it was kind of two days here, and three days there. I think it is about finding what is right for you and what you need.

Joanna: I feel like I really need the support, now thinking about it, what I really like to have, and I guess what I pay for, sometimes there is actual coaching included and sometimes there isn’t, I need to have a specific person, one person, that I am paying, who I know will answer my question. So it needs to be some kind of one-to-one arrangement, currently I am in a group program, but I have one-to-one access to the person who leads it. So if I have a question, it doesn’t include one-to-one regular coaching which is fine for me, because my schedule is too full anyway, but if I have a question, she will always answer it. If I have a problem, she will tell me what to do, or suggest, not tell me, she will suggest solutions to whatever it is that I am going through. To be honest it is only now that I am ready for this, because I have a certain level of responsibility for my business progress and so, I am able to move along a little bit better on my own. Before that, I always had to have someone I was working with one-to-one that I talked to at least every other week, without that nothing happened. That was for years, for years I had to have that. So, once I recognised that it was okay, and yeah that was how it was. I do think it really depends on what you need, how you work; because I am so busy, it is easy for me to fall into resistance, because I can be: I am too tired, or I really don’t have time for this, and so months can pass without me achieving anything.

Holly: Yea, yeah, I know that feeling and, I think, depending on what your goals are, sometimes you need some time off?

Joanna: Yes, I also agree with that, sometimes you may need to not be working with someone, so you can get back to your own rhythm. To be honest, I thought I might need that at some point, but I didn’t and I made the mistake several times, over the past few years, of not working with anyone one-to-one because it was too expensive, or something, more money-related reasons, and I regretted those every single time. I just really benefit from that support. It was really a matter of accepting that about myself. For the rest, just finding something that you can afford that feels good to you, with a person you like.

Holly: And that you are willing to do the work on, because I think a lot of times we sign up for things because we want to get the results that this person is promising but we want it to be magical and we don’t necessarily want to actually do the work. So, again, with the example of Fabeku’s money lab, that was a ton of work, he had so much stuff. I remember asking a friend, Lisa, who had one of his previous labs, how much time do I need to spend on this every week? And she was like: oh an hour a week and then I realised, no, people were probably doing an hour a day, and I was doing a couple of hours a week. So, are you willing to put the work in, and are you aware of how much work is required for this thing that you are signing up for?

Joanna: Yeah, and that is definitely, definitely, something to consider, your own schedule and your needs. Again, it just depends, nobody can answer this question for you, you need to see what you need. I think, I have come to the conclusion, Holly and I have been in the online space for I think a similar amount of time?

Holly: Yeah probably.

Joanna: What I find, looking back and how my business grew and these kinds of things, what I know I was missing, what I would have benefited from most in those early years, is an actual person to turn to, who had been through some of this stuff and knew what they were doing. There is only so much you can learn from passive courses, everyone wants to do passive courses and not do any coaching, but that is not necessarily what people benefit from most. That is another reason that I run the SoulSpace the way I run the SoulSpace and I have people in there who pretty much never show up to anything, but they continue to be members because they know that when they need it, I am there.

Holly: Yeah, exactly.

Joanna: So, they don’t need to be doing the daily stuff, or the weekly stuff, or taking part in that, they know that when they have a question they can go in there and I will answer that question for them. Or I will pull a card or give them some guidance. I think that is really, I created it because that’s what I need, that’s what I needed when I started and what I still need, and I pay someone else for. For me, that is really, really important rather than being in our own little space, doing our own little thing, and getting caught up in our own little stories.

Holly: Yes, absolutely, and I think what you are saying about having something there so that you can dip in and dip out if you need it is important, also knowing: do you need the group or do you need the one-to-one work? And, realising that there are so many different ways to learn, it is not just about signing up for online courses it is also: what books are you going to read? What podcasts are you going to listen to? It is how else can you learn, because there are plenty of ways to learn the things that you need to learn that are maybe in more bite-sized chunks and not a nine-month program.

Joanna: Indeed, I totally agree, I don’t really buy stuff that is a nine-month program anymore, because I just move a little bit faster these days, so that doesn’t feel good to me. Although I totally accept that for some people that is the right thing. As an example, this is actually quite a funny example, I wanted to buy myself something, I was in that space, and I love Feng Shui so I saw this course, it was a 12-week course with modules and videos, and things and whatever, and going through all areas of your house, and it cost, I can’t remember $600. Then I was like: wait, I almost bought it and then I thought I am never going to do this. I wanted to buy it, but I already have a Feng Shui book I didn’t read. So I thought I am going to go on Udemy and see if they have a Feng Shui you know what, and I bought two for $20 each. Instead I was super happy with myself, I was like: I am so happy, I am going to do this, they are cheaper, and I am going to learn the same things because the basics of Feng Shui must be the same, so it is all good. Did I do the courses?

Holly: No!

Joanna: Nope! {laughing} So now I am doubly-quadruple happy

Holly: that you didn’t spend the bucks.

Joanna: I knew I wouldn’t do it, it is just something I would like to have access to when I have the time, may over Christmas I will watch some of the videos. I want to learn about it, it is one of these addicted to knowledge things, but yes be very, very, aware that there are lots of way to learn the same information, and if you are not willing to read the book, then you might not be willing to do the course either.

Holly: Absolutely, and I think that is really good segue into another thing that you want discuss, before buying new stuff look at what you have already purchased and haven’t done. Could you learn from that, are you interested in revisiting it? Look at what you have got.

Joanna: If you have been buying courses for a while, chance are that you have access to so many things. I recently remembered that I had access, as bonus, to somebody’s business course that I bought two or three years ago, I have a bonus access to a whole copywriting course. I remembered this when I was considering buying Marie Forleo’s copywriting course and I was like: will I really spend the time on this? It requires a lot of practice and will I really do it? Also I am big proponent of just writing from the heart, rather than…I have issues. and then thankfully I remembered that I have this bonus access to this thing. So you might have access to more things than you think, and especially when we are talking about business and business skills. So, the information that is being taught will likely be the same, in slightly different ways, so if you didn’t go through it the first time, in whatever course you already bought, then you are probably unlikely to go through it with this new person. Unless, and I do think there is an unless here, because we grow, right? So perhaps the thing you bought before is now misaligned, that’s possible, so if somebody who shows up on your radar that kind of meets the criteria we talked about before in this podcast episode: you want to hang out with them in their energy and they kind of match where you want to go and your values are all aligned, all this kind of thing, then I think it is okay to buy, even if you have bought something on that same topic already.

Holly: Sometimes it wasn’t the right time before and now it is.

Joanna: Or the right person. Maybe that decision was made out of fear of missing out, and now you are more and more ready to make a decision out of love and so it is going to be different. Again, I think all of these things boil down to: you have to be very conscious of where you are, and where you are going and what the right things are for you. That’s a practice, right?

Holly: Yeah, absolutely. Good I think we are exhausted this topic for today. I really hope that we have given people enough clear examples of what has worked for us and what has not worked for us and guidelines on how to invest your money and your time and choose what courses, programs, ways of learning, are right for you in this year.

Joanna: Remember that, just to remind everyone that I think the most important piece is the alignment piece. So just be really be aware of where you want to be, what kind of person you want to become, and then run your decisions through that filter: does this align, not with you now, but with the person you want to become? So, to the you now it might feel a bit stretchy but is it aligned with where you are going?

Holly: I think that is a really, really, good point. That was the case for you with this Ann Wilson thing.

Joanna: Definitely, it is very aligned with where I want to be, completely misaligned with where I am right now {laughing}. That changed very quickly, to be honest, I have been in that just for a month, so far not even, that has already shifted. I already feel, now, after a month I feel now that I am the kind of person who knows about money and who can manage money well. So, it has already shifted, I think it is because I made decision based on where I was going, rather than where I am now. That is for any change, we can, if we make decisions from the perspective of the person we are now, we will just stay here. If we want something to change, you need to change something.

Holly: Exactly, and there are some easy low-cost ways you can do that, so tell us a little bit about the SoulSpace. People have been hearing us blab just about every month for the entire 2018 and now into 2019, so we have mentioned the SoulSpace but haven’t talked about it that much, tell us about it.

Joanna: The SoulSpace is my life’s work,

Holly: So nothing major!

Joanna: Nothing major! {laughing} As my life’s work, it is a membership community with a monthly fee, or you join for a year, there is an annual option. It is kind of my take on what you need in order to go from intention to reality, to actually consciously, and intentionally, create your life and live your life, and make those decisions from a space of personal power. The reason the SoulSpace is a membership community that is ongoing, and people stay there, some people stay there for years, is because it is not about learning a manifesting formula, this reality creation stuff is not about manifesting three-step formula and you are done. It is about consistently raising your vibration and aligning your vibration with what you want, where you want to be, with the person you want to become, with the person whose the reality you want to experience. So, that’s what we do in the SoulSpace, we focus on that and I think that’s pretty much the explanation.

Holly: I have got something kind of vaguely similar in terms of being a membership community with my Patreon group and that is something you can join at different tiers based on what you want to invest. I do different things in there at different levels, so I do some done-for-you PSYCH-K® work, done-for-you HEW® work and my work is all about, it has evolved from business mindset stuff into getting to know yourself and delving deeper into the woods of yourself, so you can live a life that is aligned with what you really want, and not the external crap that we have taken on as to what we think we want. We will put the links in the show notes but give us the link to the SoulSpace so people can find that.

Joanna: It is: http://JoannaHennon.com/soulspace

Holly: Mine is: http://Patreon.com/HollyWorton So check those out and see if you would like to be supported in that way.

Joanna: You will see both of us in both. Holly and I are not just friends we actually really love each other’s work, so I am one of Holly’s patrons and Holly is a SoulSpace member.

Holly: Exactly.

Joanna: We believe in each other’s work in that way as well. So you will get to hang out with us both in either option.

Holly: So we will see you online. If you have any questions about today’s topic, or anything that we have discussed in any of our podcast episode, please get in touch, I am [email protected] and you can get to Joanna at:

Joanna: [email protected] or just PM me on Facebook that’s good too.

Holly: Exactly, find us online and get in touch and if you have any ideas for topics for other episodes please feel free to get in touch, we love getting ideas from other people. Thank you for listening today and good luck with your investments.

Joanna: See you soon.

Holly: I hope you found that interesting and useful. Please drop me a line and let me know what you thought about it, you can email me at: [email protected] or find me online and get in touch.

Thank you so much for listening if you enjoyed this episode please leave a quick review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, it would mean the world to me.

Next week, I am back with another solo episode and the following week back with Jo Casey.

So, that is all for now, remember to visit https://www.hollyworton.com/288 for the show notes on this episode. If you are listening to this not on the week that it went live afterwards you will also be able to find the transcript for this episode and for previous episodes of this podcast. Transcripts usually live go live about a week after the podcast episode itself goes live. So if you are more of a reader than a listener how to get you get through the last hour or so of this podcast, I don’t know but I commend you and you have access to the transcripts on the website. That’s https://www.hollyworton.com/288 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. Have a great week.